Keeping watch on Trendwest / WorldMark by Wyndham

Credits keep getting cheaper

2011-03-09T09:58:00.000+11:00

I keep an eye on eBay auctions involving Worldmark and I found a rather cheap auction, selling Australian credits for 70c each (compared to the 'official' price of $2.60).

The auction listing took me to Royale Timeshare Resales and they're listing resales as low as 60c/credit.

Why would anybody pay full price?!

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

50+ years ROI on Worldmark

2011-02-07T09:32:00.000+11:00

I noticed a recent sale of holiday credits on eBay Australia.

This wasn't a sale of Worldmark ownership credits — it was just a one-off sale of holiday credits for use in booking accommodation. The owner, it would seem, wasn't using the annual allocation, so they wanted to get some money in exchange for giving somebody a holiday or two.

There was quite a bit of bidding over the week, taking the price from an opening $399 to a final $735 (Australian dollars). This is interesting in that it gives an indication of the 'value' of Worldmark ownership. If the person has an annual 12,000 credits then it's worth $735/year.

At a current "purchase from Wyndham" cost of $2.82 per credit, that's 12,000 x $2.82 = $33,840 of up-front cost to get a mere $735 value per year. That means an ROI of 48 years, but that's excluding extras like housekeeping.

Not exactly a stunning investment. I think the person who bought the credits is the smartest -- they got the holiday at a fraction of the Worldmark cost. Good one!

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

Accidents will happen

2010-12-17T10:09:00.000+11:00

From a reader...

Don't have an accident on the World Mark properties. I slipped getting out of the shower and dislocated my shoulder. My own insurance covered most of the cost but when I asked if they had any kind of medical benefits like most homeowners have through their insurance I was told no coverage unless I could prove them negligent. GET YOUR OWN ACCIDENT INSURANCE to cover deductibles and copays. Or try the duck.

I think the Worldmark stance is entirely reasonable. If the property owner is negligent, they would be liable. So, it's a matter of showing that they wilfully made the shower slippery.

If, on the other hand, it was an accident that was not exacerbated by their actions, I don't see why they should be liable to cover such costs. Travel Insurance is always a good idea, especially if travelling to a different country.

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

Please do not ask for credit since refusal may offend

2010-12-01T19:36:00.000+11:00

From a reader...

We had a reservation for Kona in January, but since our income dropped precipitously could not use the credits. We called on the outside chance that we could change the reservation due to the fact that the credits were old. The employee changed the reservation to next year. We were very happy with them.

We decided to call back and add a week and were told that the reservation should not have been changed and now we had lost both the original reservation and the new reservation, both were confirmed. Now a week later after contacting the board of directors and customer services nothing has been done. Their employee made the mistake and as of December 1st nothing has been done.

I won't be buying anything from them again if they don't fix the mistakes of their employees and I'm likely to sell these credits as soon as they refuse make things right. I would choose any other company before these thieves.

Mmm, while they might have been within their rules to refuse the use of old credits, they should certainly honor the words of their employees. So sad.

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

Helpful advice for happy ownership

2010-11-03T16:22:00.000+11:00

Some helpful information posted by '1nceBurned2wiceShy'...

The experience for WM owners seems to be different, or else I was just lucky.

We just returned from our first use of one of our WM timeshares purchased on eBay (soon to be combined to save admin costs). Upon check-in, and having identified ourselves as first-time users, we were invited to attend an "informational presentation" regarding our new ownership. (I thought, "Oh boy, here we go."). Nevertheless, after considering it overnight, we accepted.

To my surprise, it turned out to be just that. I had done some research through the WM website prior to our stay, but they cleared up a number of questions regarding the Exchange Plus program and other questions. We spent two hours with the salesperson that included a tour of the Presidential Suite -- very nice (and tempting to buy more credits -- beware the WOW factor).

Because of the all the time spent with us, we, and especially my wife, felt a little guilty declining their various offers, but their prices were about 6X what we paid for our credits through EBay. Nevetheless, they gave us our AMEX gift card as promised -- no hassle, and no high pressure tactics. We have already planned our return trip to Steamboat Springs, CO next June and then on to Yellowstone, MT.

Do your due diligence and research (this site is a great starting point), buy online from a reputable reseller, have patience during the closing/transfer process, then start enjoying some really extravagant, affordable vacations. Oh, and plan ahead as much as possible -- especially if you want to get into Yellowstone during the busy seasons.

Yes -- buying the points cheaply (definitely no more than $1 per credit) will give a worthwhile Worldmark experience.

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

Confusing Fairfield system

2010-10-01T13:21:00.000+10:00

I got this question from a reader that had me confused...

I just attended a sales presentation here in Hawaii by Wyndham - was promised a $50 gift card and $100 credit on my car rental - I got the gift card but so far the rental credit hasn't materialized - if I get burned on that, c'est la vie - not a great loss.

I didn't agree to buy anything, deciding to do research and that's how I found your site. So far, it seems IF I decide to get anything, it should be on the resale market.

This is my question - the packages I was offered were in the 104,000 - 1,000,000 points range. For instance, one deal was $28,000 for 156,000 points with fee-simple (deeded) interest in the Bali Hai resort on Kauai. There were, of course, "sweeteners" when I resisted (e.g. double points for two years, etc.), but I didn't sign.

When I looked at the point fees for the resorts, the cheapest weeks were for 28,000 points up to hundreds of thousands for expensive places.

Now, in doing my research, it seems like the kind of points people are talking about, on your website and others, and on the resale market, are in the 5,000 - 15,000 - 25,000 etc. point range. Also, you mention $1 a point as being a good price - which would make the above deal worth $156,000 - I know that's not right!

Why the discrepancy? It seems like two different systems.

Any information you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks for the service you are doing by alerting potential buyers like me of the pitfalls of this whole timeshare deal.

Aloha, Stephen.

I didn't know what it could be, so I consulted with the folks from Redseason.com.au here in Australia. (The information is slightly different between regions of the world.) They said:

Wyndham sells two different systems in the USA - one is the "Worldmark by Wyndam" which is the equivalent of our system here in Australia (so 10000 credits for a 2 bedroom peak season at most resorts, etc) and the other one is the old Fairfield system which is now called something like "Wyndham Points" (just to be confusing). The Wyndham points system has a much higher point rating that the Worldmark system as you can see from Stephen's email.

Worldmark South Pacific owners do not currently have access to the properties owned by the Wyndham Points club so I don't have any direct information on what the conversion rate between the two would be.

So in short the systems are completely different and not sure what the resale value of the Wyndham Points system is (but as you would know in general you can pick up basically any timeshare on the secondhand market for around a third or less of the presentation prices) - I am sure a google search would turn up a number of brokers dealing with that system if he did want to buy one second-hand.

-- Fabbo Tags: wyndham worldmark

An unhappy Wyndham customer

2010-09-30T11:10:00.000+10:00

From a reader...

Wyndham Resorts lured us by throwing us lavish and free gifts. In the promotion gatherings, they gave us a very rosy picture of their Holiday Scheme Package making us the owners of resorts exclusively holiday for members and no outsiders. For this ownership we had to pay a hefty price in instalments/lumpsum.

On becoming the member realised the cheating done by Wyndham giving preference to outsiders to earn money as we are the definate trapped members. Each time we want a holiday, we are refused and on lot of persulation and discussions ultimately, given the discarded room at low levels without any view and then the everlasting fight at reception takes place and if we are successful after creating a lot of scene, and spoiling our mood we are given a room with view. Every holiday a big breakfast is thrown where half of the resort members and the resort guests are invited to convince them to buy more points. All this is done at our monthly payments.

In addition to this, on two occasions in the past, when we cancelled a holiday booking well before time, Wyndham still deducted a hefty amount of points against our money from our account. And on we questioned them about it, instead of satisfying us with some reason, they simply banged the phone on us, making us feel like beggers (and not owners).

In another incedent, we received vouchers for 2-for-1 cruise from Wyndham Resorts which we renewed twice after shelling some money. According to this package, we were to receive two cruise tickets at the price of one ticket from a website they had given us. On enquiring and checking other websites, we found that the website quoted double the prices of the market price of cruises and hence was not actully a DISCOUNT which they promised us.

My whole regret is after spending such a lot of money I realised all this and i don't want anyone else to get trapped into this SCAM and suffer the way I have suffered - financially and mentally. I am probably trapped in this for life and if anyone could please help me get out of it.

Can't add anything to that!

-- Fabbo
Tags: wyndham worldmark

Wyndham vs Worldmark -- The battle continues

2010-08-14T09:26:00.000+10:00

People who attend the Wyndham presentations are shown pretty pictures of vacation destinations and are asked to imagine leisurely holidays. Only at the very end do they get to see the legal contract. Never are they told about the relationship between Wyndham and Worldmark.

In a nutshell from my limited knowledge, Wyndham build (or purchase) and sell the accommodation, while Worldmark maintains it and has members. They are separate organisations. One is dedicated to selling. The other is the club that people join.

It appears that the relationship between the two is not all that happy. Here's information recently published by the Worldmark Owners association, which is unaffiliated with them both.

Dear WorldMark Owner:

By now, you should have received a copy of "Notice of Pendency of Settlement of Derivative Action" dated July 2, 2010 regarding the proposed settlement of litigation involving WorldMark and certain WorldMark directors. A copy of the settlement is available here. The settlement affects ALL persons who own WorldMark. Since this is a derivative suit, all owners will receive the settlement benefits (if any), therefore, an "opt out" option is not available as is often the case in class action suits. A settlement hearing will be held on September 10, 2010 at 9:00am in San Francisco, CA. You have a right to address the court, attend the hearing, and/or submit written comments/objections. Written comments must be received by the court and attorneys no later than August 27, 2010.

The proposed settlement was negotiated between Plaintiffs' and Defendants' Counsels, not the Court. It is in your best interest to comment on the proposed settlement since in previous suits of this nature courts have considered comments in approving the final settlement. Your comments are important! To facilitate preparation of your comments, and to ensure compliance with specific requirements stated in the notice, a recommended format is available here.
WMOwners, Inc. objects to the proposed settlement, and there are a number of reasons to object. Not all are stated here.

1. The proposed settlement will result in undetermined expense to The Club and provide only minimal benefits. The crux of the case is that Director Defendants breached their fiduciary duty to members of the Club and placed the interests of Wyndham ahead of their obligations to Club members. This breach has resulted in ongoing controversy regarding the responsibilities of the Director Defendants and their obligation to prevent Wyndham from implementing certain programs that violate or are contrary to our governing documents. This settlement brings no relief or resolution on this important issue.

2. The proposed settlement leaves the Club with a Board dominated by Wyndham-affiliated Directors. The Wyndham-dominated Board will merely fill the vacant position required by appointing one of their close "nonaffiliated" allies. The settlement does not adequately address this, and fails to impose restrictions that would prevent the Board from continuing those practices.

3. The settlement contains a provision requiring "review" of the Management Agreement. The current Management Agreement is an annual, automatically self-renewing, multi-million dollar contract ($22.3M in 2009) for management services; yet never in the history of our Club has this contract been competitively awarded. Without competition it is impossible to determine if the Club could obtain the same services elsewhere at less cost. Given a board dominated by Wyndham affiliated Directors, the likelihood of revision or open competition that would benefit owners is extremely remote.

4. Meaningful relief is grossly inadequate considering that no monetary recovery to the Club is proposed to offset the implementation expenses of settlement provisions.

5. The proposed settlement is a broad waiver of claims. If the settlement is approved in the current format, this waiver would effectively preclude any further action on all claims - both known and unknown - related to any activity of the board during the settlement period. When balanced against the relief obtained, this waiver is excessive. The waiver is so broad that it arguably can be interpreted to bar states' Attorneys General from suing on behalf of Club members.

For these reasons WM Owners, Inc. recommends that all WorldMark owners submit written objections to the proposed settlement. Any settlement in a complicated case of this nature is a compromise. As with any compromise, the final resolution is rarely the best possible outcome. However, the settlement as proposed is so unbalanced against the interests of WorldMark owners, that it should not be approved by the court.

Click here to see the position of WorldMark Owners, Inc. on each of the subjects addressed in the Settlement notice. The document contains suggested relief that would be acceptable to WM Owners, Inc. Although the Court and Counsels are not obligated to accept any of the relief suggested, it is important to offer suggestions as well as criticism. By offering suggested relief it is hoped that the Court and Counsels will better understand the degree and scope of owners' concerns. Please feel free to use any of the material in this message or on wmowners.com in preparing your response to the Court and Counsels.

For additional information on this proposed settlement, please visit Owners 4 WorldMark, the WMOwners discusson forum, and Marci Tribe's website.

Remember, comments must be received by the Court and both Plaintiffs' and Defendants' counsel no later than August 27, 2010.

Please do not assign your proxy to the Wyndham-controlled Board of Directors. Please assign your proxy to WMOwners, Inc.

Thank you for your attention in this important matter,

Your friends and co-owners at WMOwners, Inc

Mmm. Not good at all.

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

National Vacation Sales & Service are evil

2010-06-18T07:16:00.000+10:00

From a reader...

I was contacted by National Vacation Sales & Service in Nov. 2009. I paid $1500.00 for them to sell my property by Worldmark by Wyndham. I have never heard a word from them since. I left several messages and never heard from them again. Since them I have been scammed by others and have still not sold.

Yes, indeed! A quick Google search for them shows alerts from Wyndham and I even blogged about them previously.

There are, fortunately, reputable companies like Redseason that can re-sell memberships. The best such companies either purchase your credits directly so there's no "fee" — but they will only pay a market-discounted rate since they've got to earn a bit on the resale. Also, there seems to be a lot of sales via eBay.

Last resort... hand out leaflets outside a Wyndham office offering to sell credits at half-price to all those who enter. hehe

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Steamboat Springs says Wyndham is a scam

2010-06-12T22:20:00.002+10:00

From a reader calling themselves DenverJulie...

It's a scam!! My husband and I started off like everyone else, going to this presentation followed by a sales pitch. After telling the salesmen "no" several times, they offered a 'trial package' with 12,000 pts for $1800 (paying $100 per mth for 18 mths) but the places we allowed to go were limited. It was do-able, so we signed up for it to try 'the experience'.

We were now locked in & we were making payments. Every time we called and talked with someone we got a completely different answer as to when our points expired. We finally got the same answer with the last couple people we spoke with so we decided to wait a couple weeks and then book our first trip to Vegas.

So when I call back to book a reservation, they said our points had 'expired'! WHAT???!! They said they had expired 6 months prior (August 2009), which is funny because the other 2 people I had spoke with told us we had until July of 2011. That's a HUGE time frame window of error. Anyways, they said they could reinstate our points, but we had to use all 12,000 points in 120 days. Wow, ok.

My husband was beyond mad, so he damanded an answer. The phone operator he actually spoke with was very nice & told him the REAL reason our points 'expired'. Worldmark had eliminated a department in their company which changed the 'rules & dates' in our contract. He said many people were upset, but there is a sentence in the contract that basically says rules can change whenever & customers don't have to be notified. WOW>> We were livid, but had paid for the trial & decided to use the points and be done with Worldmark.

Well we decided on Steamboat Springs in Colorado as our first weekend trip. On your first trip they make you attend a mandatory meeting with another salesman and the reservation had to be a minimum 3 night stay. We ended up wasting 1 night of points because of the limited time frame they gave us to use our reinstated points. The resort was beautiful and that the was the only good thing about the resort.

We went to our manditory sales pitch meeting (if you don't go, they fine you), on the day we checked out. We met with a nice lady and started to explain our concerns. We were so very nice in hopes they might give us back the points for the 3rd night we HAD to book & didn't use. She looked at us like we were crazy & said there is NO mandatory 3 night booking, and had no clue how to respond to our other concerns (expiration date changes of our points), so she called out the manager of Steamboat Springs Worldmark. HERE'S the kicker! You ready? He says he didn't know about the mandatory 3 night booking for first trip.

We started to tell him about our expiration date change for our points and before we could finish he interrupted us. He bluntly told us the Worldmark salesmen & phone operators will tell you ANYTHING to get you in the door to get your money. That's their job to get you locked in & they will tell you anything true or not. We were like 'What? How is that legal?' After that we were so mad but remained calm & had so many more questions to ask him. He started to yell at us & didn't want to answer any of our questions.

He then said 'If you don't like the Worldmark experience then you can leave right now.'

I said, 'Well this meeting is mandatory or we will get fined.'

He said,'You won't be fined bc you at least showed up.'

We indeed left right then. I was shocked at how UNPROFESSIONAL the mangaer could be. The funny thing is, I can't believe he bluntly told us Worlmark is a scam! His own words... Do not get fooled by these people.

Oh I want to just say one more thing. I just read up a few comments where people were asking how to use the trial package once it's paid off. According to that rude manager at Steamboat Springs, you HAVE to use your points BEFORE your last payment of the trial period. Yes you heard me, you have to use the points (take all vacations) before you are even done paying for it. That does not make any sense to me at all. He told my husband and I that we are very lucky that our points were reinstated so we could use our points. Scam.

Mmm. Makes me think that I should record all my contract-related phone calls to keep evidence for these sorts of conversations. (By the way, Skype add-ons let you record calls. Very handy!)

Thanks for your story, DenverJulie!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Don't join, just use their free trips!

2010-03-31T11:46:00.002+11:00

From a reader...

I am surprised at all of the negetive comments here. It sounds like everyone is upset they have to listen to a typical sales pitch and expect a 1st class vacation for free! REALLY??

I have had a couple experiences with Trendwest. I have listened to their presentation 3 times, and taken the 'free vacation' twice, with the 3rd in the works. The 1st 2 times, I went to Vegas. Yes, you arrive late and depart early, so you basically get 1 day there. BUT... my husband and I have 4 children and no time or money for vacations. This was a PERFECT little get-a-way for us! We are now planning on using our 3rd free trip to Cancun this year. No, not much time to spend there, but we are so looking forward to a quick get-a-way at the beach with a chance to unwind. And no, they don't book you at sleezy hotels. Both times in Vegas, we stayed at the Excalibur. Not top of the line, but not a sleezy hotel either. And the taxes and fees you pay are normal. How many of you can take a quick trip for less than $200? You couldn't buy airfare alone for that!

So, my suggestion is, if you are just in it for the free trip, yes, it is totally worth 1 1/2 hrs and a few nominal fees!!! Oh, and each time, they also gave us a $30 giftcard to Olive Garden as well! No one can be FORCED into signing a contract if they don't want to. You just need a backbone....

Mmm. So this isn't exactly a recommendation for taking out Worldmark ownership — it's a recommendation to take the Trendwest freebies. Not exactly honest, but I must admit that I did appreciate the DVD player that I got for attending my sales presentation.

Vegas, watch out!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Disney or... Busted!

2010-03-24T09:39:00.001+11:00

From a reader...

I have read all of the above comments. I purchased a 12,000 credit "Experience" membership with WorldMark in 2008. I haven't experienced anything yet aside from repeatedly having to request a brochure or something that says when and where I can use my vacation credits. I'm about to pay my 19th and final payment of $99 for this powerful and painful lesson that will turn out to be the most expensive mistake I have ever made. I urge anyone who gets suckered into this "experience" branded debt-hole to cancel within 3 days of signing their contract by mailing this address:

WorldMark by Wyndham Experience
Recission-Contract Compliance Department
P.O. Box 690189
Orlando, FL 2869-0189

Do a google search on that address so you can find out what information you need to send them. I've lost that information.

You're better off saving $100 a month and use it however you like. I didn't find out until it was too late that I can't use the credits for airfare, I can't go to Hawaii, or the Caribbean or on any cruises. I really wanted to take a cruise. They gave me a brochure for worldmark "The Club" which is not what I paid for. So, I'm still trying to figure out how to use these credits before June, when they are scheduled to expire.

They did offer a vacation in Disneyland / California adventure but a year and a half after mailing in the voucher, I have still never received the tickets they promised.

Altogether this experience has equated to a money-draining SCAM. I like how their company posts anonymous shill comments here to offset some of the negative reviews. From what I can tell, the negative reviews are the only real ones, the rest are all shills.

Ouch! You'd think they would treat their 'Experience' customers even better than owners, but it seems not.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Flight attendant loves Worldmark in Hawaii

2010-03-10T19:01:00.002+11:00

From a reader...

My friend has worldmark and I am saving to purchase one. I would never buy at a presentation as the same membership (6,000 points is what my friend has) is available on eBay for way less and is the same in every way as one purchased from worldmark.

It is perfect for my situation as I am a flight attendant and love to travel to Hawaii. My friend (who is also a flight attendant) and I have stayed at the Worldmark in Kona many times. The beautiful thing about the resorts in Hawaii is they are considered exotic bonus time so you can book them for yourself or a guest for $485.00 for an entire week up to 1 month in advance.

The exotic bonus time is unlimited and totally separate from credits. It's even cheaper if you go just Mon-Thur as weekends cost more. They have full kitchens, washer and dryers. Saves money since you don't have to eat out every meal.

My friend also booked the Worldmark in Tucson for me and my parents as guests. That one was a 2-bedroom and we paid $54.00 a night which was an awesome deal. Also they are more like condo apartments than resorts so if you really like resorts this is not for you.

I think that you have to look at your individual situation to see if it is a good deal for you or not. I get free airfare so for me it is perfect as the Worldmark resorts in Hawaii are a steal compared to other hotels. I think some of the popular drive-to resorts can be a lot harder to get rooms at, so research that if you are considering buying it for a certain location.

I went to the website for Worldmark and read through all the information and am pretty much a Worldmark expert. I even know more about it than my friend who owns it. I suggest doing the same before thinking about buying to see if it will be a good deal for your situation.

Another handy hint is if you want to know the cost of a resort per night multiply the credits X .048. For instance the resort in Kona is 10,000 credits for a week so 10,000 X .048 = $480.00. I hope my info helps someone out there. Again if you want Worldmark save yourself time and money and buy on the second-hand market from a trusted source to get the best deal.

Couldn't agree more.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

We've been richly blessed by our ownership

2010-02-19T13:16:00.002+11:00

Some pleasant comments for a change...

Bitter - bitter - bitter - what a bunch of complainers!!

My wife and I have been owners for 12 years. We purchased shortly after we got married to force ourselves to take family vacations annually. We now have 4 kids and absolutely love our ownership.

For those who have been misled - I'm sorry. My wife and I used to attend sales pitches all the time for the free gifts. We were good at saying no. We took the free trip to San Francisco for 2 nights and 3 days, paid an upgrade fee and were not impressed with the result, but we really enjoyed the free trip. We also did not purchase at that time.

A year later we were invited back for another presentation and another free trip. This trip was to Reno, which we decided not to upgrade and ended up staying in a 5-star resort/casino that was beautiful and luxurious. We had a blast!

We also ended up buying at this presentation. The things that made sense to us: Many local resorts within 2-3 hours drive (with children it is often hard to afford airfare)

Renewable credits every year with a one-year carryover and one-year borrowing power. We could skip a year or go twice in one year if we wanted to. The maintenance fees were a little high, but less than it would cost us to vacation at a similar place. By paying them monthly we could spread out the cost of our vacation over the year instead of trying to book something and having to stay home because we didn't have the money saved up. (If it's there it's spent most of the time)

We could rent our unit out if we wanted to and recover the cost of the maintenance fees. (Have done this on more than one occasion)

The bonus time and exchange opportunities are also attractive and useful. We have visited many of the resorts and have always had a positive experience. We have also added additional credits to our account over the years. Our goal is to will a portion of it to each of our kids. The credits required for a week have not gone up. A few of the resorts have a higher rate than others due to location or demand, but overall we are using the same number of credits for a week now that we used when we first purchased in the late 1990's. We also have the opportunity to use many more resorts than we did when we purchased, as Worldmark continued to build new properties over the years, all of which we have access to.

We also upgraded one time and decided the timing wasn't right. When you upgrade or purchase for the first time they are required by law to give you at least a 3 business day window to cancel. We returned on the 3rd day and canceled, telling them we needed to re-think the decision at that time due to budget constraints. We had no problems canceling and no bills were sent to us.

Finally, we have almost always gotten into the resort we wanted to when we wanted to by planning ahead. We book 13 months out because we can cancel at any time up to 30 days before with no penalty and no loss of credits. It makes for easy planning.
We do not work for Worldmark and would not want to work for them. My advice is get the information you need ahead of time and make an informed decision. Investing in vacation ownership is not a financial investment - you will not make money off it by re-selling it. But it can be an investment in your family, reserving time to spend together and create lifelong memories. We've been richly blessed by our ownership, despite occasional glitches the company has had with paperwork or other details that come with being a huge corporation. Remember that most of the people you deal with are just that - real people who have feelings and needs and are earning a paycheck. Some can be jerks - hope you can avoid them...

If you'd like to discuss any of this with me, please send an email to sotnasrd@yahoo.com. I'm happy to share my honest opinions, experience, and advice.

Thanks for reading - Dan

Good stuff! For many people, the value is there -- especially if you can buy those credits at half-price.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

You should attack Wyndham with ALL CAPS

2010-02-18T06:25:00.002+11:00

From Klaus, who seems to have quite an opinion of Wyndham...

Worldmark is a rubbish company that lies, deceive, cheat people. Let's be clear, we need to make this company disappear.

Anyway, if you want to have your contract cancelled, send them a LETTER, registered with track control with signature required saying like this: I WANT THE CANCELATION OF MY CONTRACT DUE TO MISREPRESENTATION. Those are the words. MISREPRESENTATION. It is important.

After I shout on one of the managers she told me to do exactly like that. And after a while they sent me a mutual release contract. And don't let them fool you. Ask your money back. But make them pay you, they will try to deceive you as usual. Don't be fooled. fight until the end. They are bastards. Good Luck

By the way, I think he's referring to Wyndham, not Worldmark.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

How to get a FREE Cruise Ship holiday!

2009-12-25T21:46:00.003+11:00

Have you ever considered taking a cruise instead of staying in typical timeshare accommodation?

I've just been on a cruise with my family and we had an absolutely fantastic holiday! We went on the Royal Caribbean ship Rhapsody of the Seas, for a 10-day cruise in Australia.

Let me tell you — having a holiday on a cruise ship is vastly different to a land adventure. You can do as much or as little as you want, you are fully pampered and there's activities for the kids. If you want to learn more about my cruise, see the review I posted on the Cruise Critic website.

However, there's one thing I learned onboard that I'd like to pass along. I discovered how some people (actually MANY people) get free/low-cost cruises... they serve as Enrichment Lecturers, speakers, face painters, entertainers and even gentlemen dance partners. By working a few hours on each 'at sea' day, they get a free cruise in return.

It's true — for example, Sixth Star Entertainment have listings of openings available. Go check them out!

Interestingly, the cruise ships provide a free cruise to the Enrichment instructors, but Sixth Star charge the instructors $40/day as their 'cut'. Apparently, it's possible to go directly to the cruise companies and get the cruise totally free. There's even a website called SpeakersCruiseFree.com that tells you how to do it. They sell an eBook for $97, which can probably give you a FREE $4000 cruise! (If any of you buy the book, let me know what you think!)

Here's a PDF that explains the benefits: The Top 5 Cruise Lines Enrichment Programs and How You Can Exploit Them To Get Free Cruises

So, as you sit there beside your timeshare pool, year after year, think about taking a cruise instead. You might even be able to use some of your timeshare points to get a cruise through Interval. Good luck!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

The Scammers are being Scammed

2009-12-22T15:24:00.002+11:00

Hehe. Looks like some people called National Vacation Sales and Service are trying to scam Worldmark owners.

A recent Redseason.com.au newsletter says:

There is a resale company in the USA that has somehow managed to get a hold of the full member listing for all Worldmark owners (including owner names, phone numbers and the number of credits owned by each member). I would love to know how they obtained this information as Wyndham really should not be releasing personal information to these guys.

The company is called National Vacation Sales and Service and operates out of Florida USA and is offering ridiculously high prices to rent or buy memberships.

One member who contacted me was offered over A$9000 just to rent her available points on a 7000 credit membership. This is definitely a scam as they could buy the full membership from us for under A$7000 so please do not fall for overseas companies offering high prices for your membership - no doubt if you accepted you would be asked for some sort of listing fee or to provide your bank details to them.

A bit of Google searching also revealed a warning on the Worldmark website. Interestingly, this is a warning to Worldmark South Pacific owners.

This started to look interesting, and a bit more searching found this transcript on Timeshare Users Group Online Community Forums:

Q:How did you get my Mom's name?

A: Our financing company, Tamaac sent out a postcard to people with timeshares asking if they wanted to sell it, when they didnt respond, they passed the name to my company, so we called your Mom.

Q: What's the $1500 for? It seems potentially risky, throwing nearly 10% of the value of the property for a potential sale.
A: That's $1500 she would have to spend anyway if she were going to sell it to get the same documents.

(Unsolicited, from him): We wouldn't even be contacting you if we didn't need your property.

Q: So you're saying you have a buyer on the line, right now?
A: it's against the law for us to tell you that.

Q: Well, it seems that if you had a buyer on the line, why wouldn't your company just cover those costs, against the price of the timeshare? That way, when she sold it, she would receive $18,000, minus the $1500 of the cost of processing those documents.

A: Well that would be against the law. We're not allowed to work on commission.

The transcript has more and makes a fun read!

So, it looks like the standard Nigerian 419 scam that tries to get your money up-front with the promise of a later financial return. Yeah, sure!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

One in a Million (dollars, that is)

2009-12-07T16:01:00.002+11:00

I received this cryptic message as a comment on this blog:

go to SMALL CLAIMS COURT, you can usually file there up to $10,000.00 and in some states highter. I filed a class action suit and won, I also filed a lawusuit with 10 other and 8 were setteled for around $500,000.00 each, I won a jury verdict for $ONE MILLION IN MARCH OF 2009, MY ATTORNEYS WAS gARY gWILLIAM OF oAKLAND caLIFORNIA AT 510 83205411

It had the name of 'Steve Wiley' attached. So, I did a Google search and found some interesting history. It dates back to 2007 when Wiley, who apparently worked at Trendwest for 13 years and sued them for wrongful termination and age discrimination.

More to the point, he also accused Trendwest (now Wyndham) of selling more memberships than available capacity. That is, he claimed that there was insufficient capacity in Worldmark properties for members to actually use all their points to obtain bookings.

I don't have any more information on the topic, but it certainly makes an interesting topic, especially if Trendwest/Worldmark was found guilty of such matters.

Oh, and it just goes to prove... don't upset your staff, or they'll make your life hell!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Let WorldMark Buyers Beware! (The Story)

2009-11-24T16:38:00.002+11:00

From a reader...

I had purchased into worldmark myself about 4 years ago. I was told at the time of signing that I could cancel my contract if I was unsatisfied. A couple of days after my purchase I tried to book a vacation to try and se how it would work out. Tha places I tried to book were all pretty much booked for the next 3 months. So I called the numbers provided to me in the nice little green owners briefcase they had given me. I found out that day this was going to be impossible to cancel so I went to the office I had signed out of and they wouldn't help me cancel. They gave me instructions on how to request my cancellation and since I was five days into the contract, I only had 2 days left to cancel. At this point I wrote them an e-mail through the contact us link on thier website, Told them of my situation and that I did not like what I had purchased and requested a cancellation of contract.

Two weeks later I got a response saying that because the 7 days had already past I am no longer able to cancel my contract, a couple days later I recieved notice of payment due. I decided since not to pay and hoped It would all just go away since they have never collected from me and I did not plan on using thier service anyways. After four months my credit had plumetted due to them reporting and hurt my career in the military because I had a security clearance required for my job, I went under review due to the tarnish on my credit. So I made the back payments and since then have not fallen behind even with dues and fees that come about.

I feel for all those who where lied too, during this presentation. In a way we were suckered to believe we could cancel, when in reality they do not tell you how many days you have from the time you sign. They do not make any of this clear during thier presentation and sales pitch. They don't tell you about the limit for roolover on credits and how they actually work. They sold me a basic package that I will be paying on for about 8 more years now until it's paid in full.

I decided to pay for the contract in hopes that I would be able to sale and get out of it. I made 4 attempts in the past 3 years and have always ended up owing a large balance if I sold and would have to pay up for the balance in advance before it could be sold. So I say to all those who are interested look else where you will find the same thing for less from a time share reseller, and be able to stay away from a contract to if you are interested in credits alone..... buyer beware!

Yes, this doesn't sound surprising. If you are trying to cancel a legal contract, it must be in writing, delivered to a Worldmark address. Keep a copy of the letter, with written file notes attesting to when you delivered the letter. Courts like written stuff and file notes — email just doesn't cut it.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Truth?

2009-11-24T07:19:00.002+11:00

I had this message posted anonymously as a comment:

If you don't think you are getting value for your membership, go along to one of those 'membership refresher' nights for tips and tricks on getting the most out of it.

We are from Qld and in our 30's, and have about 20k in points. We have travelled the world with worldmark, and have been so happy with it! In 06 we did 4 weeks travelling in Europe, and we ONLY had to pay for our flights. Imagine how much a month in Europe would cost if we had to also pay for the accommodation on top? We would have needed at least another $12k for the apartments.

We are now in Canada, and have done 6 weeks here also the same way.

Add to that Fiji, New Zealand, Tasmania, the list goes on!

You just have to remember that the points just keep on giving each year - yes the initial set up costs $, but after a few years it is all worth it. Get online, and book ahead.

Holidays anytime are never 'inconvenient' for us!

I'm always happy to hear the 'good' side of Worldmark, but the thing that I question here is how they managed to get 4 weeks in Europe and 6 weeks in Canada with 20k points? So, if the author is reading this, please provide some more information (eg was it off-season, how far ahead did they have to book, did they 'save up' points from one year and use it in another year, etc). Then I might be a little less skeptical.

Oh, and don't forget the annual fees. It wasn't "only paying for flights". The annual fees would be $2k or so, wouldn't they?

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Oh, they're discounting now?

2009-11-14T06:22:00.002+11:00

From a reader...

I received a phone call from Worldmark and offered a deal for their 20 year anniversary. I currently own 7K points, if I bought 14K more at $1.80 a credit, they would give me like 42,000 bonus credits to use in the next two year.

Also this would put me at gold member status, with various other benefits and locations. Have u heard about this deal and is it a good one? Apparently it stretches out bonus time to 28 days, the regular booking window to 24months and 5000 locations.

Any info u could give me would be appreciated.

Thank you

Tricia

No, I don't have any details about this deal, but from the outside it looks like they are panicking!

For a start, you can buy credits through eBay or Red Season for around $1/credit, so it does not sound like a good deal at all.

As to the other 'extras' they are giving, they would either be normal privileges you can get with that number (or any number) of points or you should get it in very writing -- don't just trust what they are telling you. Getting it in writing will also show you whether these are normal privileges or whether it is a special related to this deal.

Also, ask them whether you can later sell your additional credits. They normally talk about how easy it is to sell credits (but they never assist with that effort). Then, once they've told you that, ask them whether you can buy credits from an existing member and get the same privileges. They'll either back-pedal or say 'yes'. If they say 'yes', get them to point it out in writing. Because you'll then go to eBay or Red Season and get exactly what they're offering you FOR HALF PRICE.

Can any other readers shed some light on these offers?

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

No regrets

2009-10-18T12:09:00.001+11:00

And on the flipside...

I just returned from a 3-day vacation at the resort in Indio. And it was a great time there! The resort was awesome & thew workers there were very friendly. It was great!

My husband and I went to a presentation on the 2nd day, but we told the sales guy up front that we were only there to give points to our uncle (who was the owner) and that we weren't interested in buying. So the rep gave us a condensed version and gave us a tour of the presidential suite, another guy came and gave us some quotes, which seemed pretty reasonable, but we couldn't afford it at this time. So we walked out with our $75 AMEX gift cards, which I was able to use to buy lunch today.

But all in all, our experience at the presentation was great. We knew how to say no and our sales agent knew to respect that. Sorry for those who had bad experiences. I'd like to hear more from owners though, as none of us are owners.. OWNERS, please fill us in. I met a lady who's been an owner for 15 years! No complaints! and my sister in law met an owner who signed up 3 years ago, and he had no regrets.

Good to hear! If you want to hear from owners, pay a visit to the Worldmark Owners Community. While the holidays are good, it seems that the shenanigans continue for owners, with Wyndham trying to keep firm control of the resorts, too, rather than putting it in the hands of the owners. Watch out for those housekeeping fees!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

The one day of the year

2009-10-18T12:06:00.002+11:00

A reader writes...

My husband and I recently purchased vacation credits through Worldmark, and we are very frustrated with it!

We had plans to go to Hawaii about a month after we purchased the package and asked them if we could possibly use our new vacation credits at the timeshare in Waikiki. The sales rep looked at his computer, said that it was unavailable at the time, but told us that it would "most likely" be available by the time we went. Much to my surprise, Worldmark only ones 1-5 properties for that location and it only available for ONE DAY over the next year!!

How is it even possible that they can post that they have a property there! The salesmans straight us LIED to us on numerous occasions and I'm so angry with their deceitfulness. I want to picket in front of their property because I am so mad. Does anyone else feel the way I do? I have experience NOTHING GOOD from them, and I'm sick of their sales people telling me that it's so awesome. IT IS NOT!

Picket? Yes! You should even open a sales office outside the Wyndham location, selling credits for half price. Imagine the marketing sign -- "After the presentation, come out here and buy for half price!" Hehe.

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

No holidays, No help

2009-10-18T11:59:00.002+11:00

From Shaz:

I wish I had found this site before I parted with $10,000 in 2002.

I had payed for the credits which i have managed to use only 3 short times as it is never convenient to Trendwest when i can take holidays. Today I called to see if they could assit to sell my shares as i was informed that Century would help me sell them when i wanted to. I was told in no uncertain terms that it wasnt their problem and that i should keep paying my yearly fees. If i didnt do this they will accumalate all of the fee and take me to court to get this.

I informed them that I am not interested in their service now hence i didnt think I should pay the fee as i could never get the service when it was convenient to me. the costomer service in Qld AUST disagreed.

Any ideas?

Ah, if I could only get $10,000 everytime somebody asked me this!!

Put simply, sell now! You can do this via eBay (sample auctions) via via resellers such as RedSeason (who very much know the market).

Prices are around $1/credit but just remember -- the longer you hold onto it, the more it costs you. So, get out as soon as possible.

Another option is to 'sell' your annual points and earn money -- see a recent blog post of mine for an example of somebody doing exactly that.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Timerent!

2009-10-08T14:55:00.002+11:00

From a message left by a reader:

I bought my membership secondhand 5 years ago and have not used it for a holiday once.

Each year I post my credits for rent at the price of the maintenance fee plus 1050 dollars. It is generally rented within three weeks and I only pay forty eight dollars for the rental listing....I love Worldmark!!!

-- Pete

Yes, renting out time is apparently acceptable under the Worldmark rules. In fact, my only ever stay at a Worldmark property was done via credits that I purchased from an owner.

Just one caveat -- the Worldmark owner still holds responsibility for any damages caused by the renter, so be careful dealing with complete strangers!

Using the rental money to pay for the anuual housekeeping fees is a good idea, especially since you've earned some money on the side. When people consider purchasing Wyndham credits, I suspect that they don't factor in the annual costs. Those costs alone come close to the cost of a normal holiday, which makes the whole timeshare thing worth considerably less.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Collections Conumdrums

2009-07-30T08:34:00.003+10:00

Oh dear. I received this question via email:

I became an "experience" (trial) member after being told in the presentation that you could pay half of the total cost, use all the points, then cancel your membership.

When the time came to cancel I was told you can't. The woman I spoke with at corporate offered a work-around solution; stop the payment on the account, let it go into collections, then after 4 months it will be worked out of their systems and you'll be in the clear. This solution shouldn't affect my credit because they never got my social security number and they use an internal collections department. I called to verify this three times.

On their advice I canceled the payment and have been receiving collection calls for a month. Now my worry is not if it will ruin my credit, but if this will result in a lawsuit for breach of contract. Any ideas or comments?

Oh dear indeed. You're playing with fire, my friend. Unless you've got any of this in writing, my recommendation would be:

Get something in writing that says what you owe, and that if you pay it you have no further commitments to their organization. I suggest YOU write this and have them agree to it.
Pay what you promised you would pay (after all, you did make a contractual commitment)
Get a receipt in writing

Yes, somebody might have told you one thing and other people say differently, but the fact is you'll be a lot better off settling the matter and getting on with your life. You don't want this carrying on for years and ruining your credit rating. Cut your loss and move on. You'll never win without something in writing.

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

NZ Student wants out

2009-07-23T17:16:00.002+10:00

A reader says...

Dear sir,

I read you'r article on you'r web side, i am a member on trendwestch since 2007, and i am paying 250 NZ $ each month, I am also not happy on their service. As you know do you have any advice how do i cancel my member ship cse i am still paying my money from my credit card, (If i advisce to my credit card centre to stop this payment i know the paymount will stopped)But the thing is They have been advisce to me if i did that i may BLACK LIST with financial market and i want be able to get any loan or other purchasce from the open market and the any bank from the world. IS IT TRUE? Can you advisce PLEASE.I am an student and it's very hard to continue this payment.

B. regards,
(Name not displayed)

Well, this all depends on what you've signed-up for.

If you have a Trial membership, it should stop at the end of your trial.

If you have purchased Credits, you can always sell them via eBay or Redseason.

However, if you financed your purchase through Trendwest and still owe them money, you will need to pay them the outstanding amounts.

I suggest you contact Trentwest and ask them how to stop the charges. If this does not work, I recommend you contact an Accountant or a Lawyer ('Solicitor' in NZ) to discover your options.

Good luck!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Horrible People

2009-07-12T10:22:00.003+10:00

A reader in Washington State says...

All the negative feed back about Worldmark Trendwest is correct. I'm here in Wash, state and the Worldmark people are the same here. Very rude if you're just there for the gift even though that's how they get you there.

Also, when I told them maybe give me some time to make a decision (a day, maybe a week) that might not be a lot of money to most people but it is to me, so I can't justify making a decision that big over a hour and half talk, they laughed and said it's a one time deal good for today (that's funny, since then I know of others who have been offered that same deal, they've even called me back a few times) HORRIBLE PEOPLE!!!!!!!

Stay away, it's not worth your time or the humiliation they put you through.

Yep, they say it's a once-only deal, but strangely they offer it every night!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

How to cancel a Worldmark trial?

2009-06-30T21:01:00.002+10:00

A reader asks...

I just attended a presentation in Vegas for some free gifts and eventually ended up buying the cheaper "trial" period, not the one from the initial seller Wyndham but from corporate Worldmark. I have decided not to keep it and wanted to cancel. I have the address but was wondering if there was anything specific I need to mention to cancel. The address I have is only a P.O box number, not a fax; I will be sure to send it certified for a receipt. The presentation I heard does seem like a good deal and I'm sure the same if you bought from a broker, I just changed my mind. Thanks so much.

I'm not personally familiar with the trial, so can anyone else provide an answer? If so, please leave a comment.

Nonetheless, I'd recommend reading the fine-print of whatever you signed. It should explain if you have any remaining obligation after the Trial Period and how it should be canceled, and whether that is even necessary.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Why buy Trendwest from Wyndham?

2009-06-23T06:30:00.002+10:00

I received this very straight-forward question from a reader:

I came across your quite informative site, and was curious about one thing. If there are alternatives to buying the Trendwest program, such as eBay and RedSeason, then why buy Trendwest at all? I mainly want to know what advantages do you get from purchasing directly from Trendwest in comparision to RedSeason?

Thank you in advance for your response.

Alex

Ah, the crux of the matter!

One of the benefits of purchasing credits, Wyndham will tell you, is that you can re-sell them anytime, or gift them to your family in your will. Wyndham will tell you how easy they are to re-sell, making it a sound investment.

Dig a little deeper, however, and you'll find them being openly hostile to the concept. They don't assist people in selling (eg they won't combine two accounts into one credit pool), they do not make any attempt to encourage a resale market (eg an online exchange where people can buy/sell), and they'll suddenly make claims that purchasing credits from an existing holder will not give you access to certain 'premium' facilities (which may or may not be true -- it's hard to get clear information out of them in this area).

So, there's basically two reasons to buy direct from Wyndham:

Their strong-arm sales tactics that make you want to buy on the night, without having time to really think it through (they'll say that the deal won't be available if you come back, which is baseless, since they'll try to sell exactly the same thing to another group of people the next night)
The buyer's gullibility which lets them purchase without doing adequate research (eg without actually reading the Contract)

Put simply — you'll buy exactly the same thing for half price via eBay or Red Season. That means double the value. Whether that value is still worthwhile (after annual maintenance fees) is still questionable, but many, many people think Trendwest is worthwhile. So, why not get it for half price? That's the logical question, but keep in mind one simple fact — humans are not always logical.

That's why there's no Wynham on the Planet Vulcan. Spock would never fall for such a scheme.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Well Prepared

2009-06-20T08:16:00.002+10:00

From a reader who went to a presentation with clear thinking and fore-knowledge:

Well I read all this before going to our presentation in Vancouver, WA. There's a lot of bashing and what not on here, but like buying a truck or a car, its not for everyone. We went anyways, $75 gift card was offered.

Everyone we encountered was nice (of course the culture here is fairly laid back), We had a nice lady as our sales person. She did ask questions, got to know us a little bit, and our vacationing habits. There was no presentation, so we skipped that part and went right into how it works. Its fairly simple, a studio for example can cost about 7,000-10,000 credits for a week stay at any of the 71 locations they have. They also have RCI for 4,000 credits per week plus a exchange fee ($160) (this is sort of a codeshare type thing where you can stay at other resorts where they dont have their own, new york city for example).

This is all fine and dandy, but then they get to the cost: $10,000 for 5,000 credits, $22,500 for 12,000 credits. You do only pay this once for lifetime membership.

The Maintenance fees we were told covers property taxes and utilities to upkeep the properties, its was $330 a year and $775 a year respectively for the amounts above (think of it as an HOA payment). They offered us in-house financing, which based on our not-so-glowing credit resulted in a 25% down payment to take the offer.

Well we can't afford that for one, secondly, they should think about that. In the long run, if you vacation every year, it can save you money, but you have to use it to the fullest. They also offered bonus time, which means within 1-14 days of arrival, you can book at 4.8 cents a credit, $40-93 plus the occupancy tax. For what you get, its a deal. (We have stayed at a couple of their properties.)

So after declining, we were offered 12,000 credits for $1,880, which you could apply to the ownership if you decide you like it, pay $250 down and $90 a month for it, and it held the "Premier" offer as noted elsewhere on this site for 20 months, the time you have to spend the credits. Well after he found out our credit level, it went to $900 down (50 a month or so, same price, no interest). Again, out of our range for "Right now" spending.

I understand you can get the deal cheaper thru other sites, but I don't know, we are young still, so it can benefit, but its not for everyone. Always read contracts in entirety before signing, You do when you buy a car or house, same here. If you don't like it, then don't sign it. If you signed it and didn't read and now want legal recourse, it's your fault for not reading it. They are a company in the business to make money, and you get you vacationing stays in return, so its not a scam per-say, but again, you do what fits your lifestyle, not Woldmark's, not the other people on this site, but yours.

Yep, you can buy credits for about half price via eBay and Red Season. Thanks for the report and congratulations on being level-headed.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Can't cancel trial membership

2009-02-19T17:14:00.002+11:00

Just got this from a reader:

Hi,

I just came across this much useful blog. I live in Vegas, had enrolled, rather got sucked into signing a trial membership for $1600. I tried to cancel immediately within the 5 days but made the mistake of not requiring certificate of delivery by post. Since that time, it's been a long ordeal. Wyndham has been saying that they never received my cancelation request in time. I sent another letter with proof (document timestamp and so on) and still no luck. I have paid them $600 so far and want my money back. What can I do next? Would copying FTC help? Senators? Complaint to BBB? Can you help me by providing some guidance.

Thanks very much

Regards
Guna

Well Guna, if you're saying that your only commitment to Wyndham is $1600 (of which you've paid $600), then I'd recommend paying the remainder and severing your relationship with them. Just make sure you're not committed to pay anything more.

Just count yourself lucky that you didn't commit to a full package that would have cost you 20x that amount.

Hey, you might even get a holiday out of your trial!

Good luck, and let us know how you go.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Doubly lucky

2009-01-06T06:49:00.002+11:00

One New Zealand reader is quite happy with their WorldMark experience...

YES, we went to a presentation ... in New Zealand. Minimum return was $70 department store vouchers, that's okay for 2 hours.

We joined. After paying off our credits in 10 years; we will have a further 70 years of holidays at very minimal cost (just the yearly maintenance amount). The credits can be willed to our children, and grand-children, etc. Or we can sell them ... but why would we want to?

In the meantime, we can enjoy a holiday in luxury (and they are usually 5 star apartments!) that we would not previously have been able to afford.

A bonus is when you put forward the name of someone to go to a seminar (be kind, ask them first!); our nominated friends hadn't actually attended.

BUT we WON a considerable amount of actual cash as a result of winning in a lucky draw (just for nominating them). Yes it happened, and we have spent the money to prove it!! ... We were flown to a fortnight in Aus in a mobile home (worth $2k), and also flown to Fiji where we stayed in a Wyndham Resort with a rental car for the whole fortnight (worth over $5k) ... but failed to spend the last $10.30 of our winnings! It was fun trying! The staff in the travel section (who booked everything for us) were also extremely helpful, either Kiwi or Aus for these countries ... and knowledgeable. Nothing was a problem. It was easier than buying a ticket in a lottery! (how often do you hear of lottery winners?)

If we attend a presentation with friends, we gain 1000 additional credits; we did this in Fiji, and our friends got over $200 value of dinner cruise, we got $100 value instantly (plus the credits to put to a future holiday ... maybe 3 or 4 nights mid-week?). So go figure ...

It's all about how to spend some money now (either up front, or by drip feed) to ensure you can holiday virtually forever.

And the people ... on the resort in Fiji the staff would be the friendliest of any we met on all of Denarau Island! Always a smile, and cheerful greeting. Look at the website and the pictures of the resorts. They aren't exaggerated. The views are breath-taking, the facilities are excellent, if you wanted to, you needn't leave the resort ... everything is brought to you (including food to your apartment).
According to the presentation (yes! but it came with freebies, and the drinkies evening had a minimum of 3 free wines each!) each resort is $1000 per unit per night. So if our party of 4 stayed there for a fortnight, it cost us way, way less than the advertised prices ... with friendly, like-minded guests.

Go in with your eyes open, be prepared to invest some time and to LEARN how best to get value for your money.

Roll on next holiday!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Las Vegas on Trial

2008-12-28T09:55:00.000+11:00

A reader says...

We went to a presentation about a year and a half ago in Anaheim. It pretty much matched the descriptions here. But we did sign of for the trial membership 12,000 credits for 1200 dollars I think.

We just used it this Christmas to go to Las Vegas for 3 days. I will say the room was nice, 2 bedrooms with a kitchen and living room. The kitchen was stocked enough for us to have family over for a xmas dinner. On the down side the construction of the building lacked a little. The elevator would stop working periodically for a few minutes, a valence fell off the patio door and the towel holder came off the wall. Oh and the carpet wasn't very clean white socks a little gray after a couple hours walking around.

Then we had to go through another 90 minutes high pressure sales on the first day to try and sell the whole package again. Even though we told them we bought a trial package and haven't even used 24hrs yet they still insisted on going through their spew.

Initially the only thing that puts me off is the maintenance fees at a little over 500 bucks a year. Whats to stop them from raising them over and over? Oh the sales people say the owner have to vote on that. Even if that's true how many city bonds get voted in year after year? Plus all the extra goodies they talk about are almost too good to be true.

Booking a month in advance got us our room in Vegas no problem, although right now we're having trouble booking in Colorado for spring break. Can't get a response to voice mail although it is Dec 27 hopefully by next week we'll get our reservation.

Then we'll post again.

Mmm. I wasn't aware of the Trial option. That would certainly help people who (quite rightly) aren't willing to hand over tens of thousands of dollars after a mere slide-show.

Let us know how it goes!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

A unhappy Worldmark Story

2008-12-21T18:28:00.003+11:00

To contrast with the previous post, a reader says...

I agree with everything people wrote about being pressured with the tactics used at our meeting with Trendwest Worldmark South Pacific (as it was known in Australia) when we signed up some 4 or 5 years ago. By the way now it is known as Wyndham here. There are so many stumbling blocks when one tries to book short holidays. You can never get in at peak times known as Red Seasons unless you book a year ahead.

The reason for this I strongly suspect is that these resorts rent out the best rooms to those who pay the full holiday time price and they only have a few rooms reserved for Worldmark/Wyndham shares owners. Then if you do get in you have no choice of what accommodation you prefer. You only get what you want if you're lucky or if you complain and almost threaten the resort owner who says that he is not the person who controls the booking but Head Office on the Sunshine Coast.

The worse thing of all is that we are stuck with our decision for life and then we have to inflict our dreaded mistake at signing up on to our heirs for ever it seems.

When I have been contacted by them to buy more shares I have vehemently expressed by desire to sell by shares back to them for even half the price they had charged us, to no avail. They say that they don't do that. Finally, one day they gave me a website and a phone number of a broker on the Sunshine Coast in Australia. We paid $98 up front to have our shares listed for resale on his website. Of course he did so with the hundreds more he had listed already on his site. That was more than six months ago.

In the beginning the guy was very solicitous and told us that he sells 2 to 3 resales every week. As time passed we heard nothing more from him and every time we needed to know how the selling was going we had to contact him and sometimes he would not call us back. We kept a good eye on the ads on his website and nothing whatsoever was being sold. He then blamed the down turn in the economy. We even lowered our price further which at the time was the second lowest on his list. The six months limit for the advert is up now but we have not heard a word from him.

So please no one be fooled by Worldmark's suggestion that your shares can be sold by anyone whom they nominate to advertise for you or like us you will be down another $98 paid up front, to that website.

To add to our dilemma this week we received our annual bill for Levies for the upkeep of the Resorts they own (not we own) and on some of which we have never set foot. And guess what? Yes you guessed! The levies have gone up again from $109 per quarter to $114 that's another $20 per year which bring the total of $456 a year. This amount can give us a 4 nights stay at a descent Motel anywhere in Australia once a year so who needs Trenwest WorldMark/Wyndham.

As suggested in one of your contributors comments a Class Action against this ripoff is not such a bad idea if enough people show interest.

Buying $12,000 plus, worth of points with this company, where once you foolishly sign up you can never get out again, was the worse decision we have ever made in our life!!

So please beware anyone who is contemplating doing likewise.

NOW TO THOSE PEOPLE who are happy with owning shares with Wynham/Worldmark Trendwest maybe they would like to buy our shares. We would be more than happy to negotiate a fair price and they will have more points to enjoy their time at all those fabulous resorts??

Yep, that's about right. By my calculation, the levies just kill any financial justification for owning Worldmark credits. For 12,000 credits you pay almost AUD700, which is half the cost of an equivalent holiday.

I disagree with your comments about Worldmark "renting out the best rooms to those who pay full holiday time price". All members get equal access at the listed points, but it is first-come, first-served. Not all resorts are completely full, but they might be for the particular time you try to book (eg school holidays).

As for selling your credits, you can also try eBay — but it is showing a value of under AUD $1 per credit, which is about what RedSeason lists. So, accept your loss, sell for under $1/credit and write it off as hard-earned experience — always research before signing something.

Oh, another option is to 'sell' your annual points via eBay in the form of a holiday — you are allowed to give your bookings to 'guests' who can then pay you for the booking. However, liability for damage remains with you. So, pick a nice place at a good time of year, make a booking and then list it on eBay. Worst case you can cancel the booking and get your points back.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

A happy Worldmark Story

2008-12-21T18:23:00.003+11:00

Comments from a reader...

am very amazed by all the negative comments here. My wife and I have gone to two Worldmark presentations about 3 years apart. The first time we went we decided not to buy. Sure we had a sales manager come over, but they took our no and let us go, after giving us our gifts.

The second time we went we already knew we wanted to buy. We had recently gone to a different company's presentation in Orlando and declined it because it did not fit our lifestyle, but we knew Worldmark did. So on our second visit to Worldmark we purchased, of course we did not take the first deal, we did a little negotiating.

We have loved every minute of it. in 5 more years it will be paid off, and we will only need to pay our maintenance fees.

Someone lied on one of the posts, the points per night do not go up. They are legally fixed. However, the price for new properties can have a higher point per night cost. We have used our points for a large vacation to Hawaii, and we have used bonus time for several stays in WA, OR, CA, AZ. Vegas. All of them have been great!

I have done trips in the past to Seaside paying well over a $100 per night and have gone crazy with 2 kids in the same room. Seaside Worldmark, we had a much better location, we had 3 bedrooms, I did not go crazy, the accommodations were way better, and we paid bonus time $45 per night. Half the price, 4x the room. Because we bought a smaller package, we only use our points every 2-3 years on a large trip life hawaii. But our little trips are incredible.

No granted, if you live on the east coast or in the midwest this may not be all that good for you. And you would know that. But if you live on the west coast and value family time and vacations, this is a must have investment.

Now if you can't handle a high pressure sales atmosphere then grow up, get a backbone, or hide in a cave for life. Sales are everywhere, do you buy a new cell phone everytime you walk through the mall? Do you buy that used car everytime you walk on a lot? Do you register for school everytime yo go online? Of course not, so quit your griping. If you bought you obviously saw value in it. Try making the most of out your purchase. If you have no intention on buying a timeshare like this at all, then don't go. But don't be surprised that they are trying to sell you one.

Mmm. I keep doing the math and the levies seem to kill the benefits, but I'm glad that you're enjoying it. But 5 more years to pay off suggests that you've put an awful lot of money into your Hawaiian trip every 2-3 years!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Address Unknown

2008-11-21T08:00:00.002+11:00

Another story...

I have had nothing but problems with Worldmark!! My husband and I bought into the timeshare scheme and we tried to cancel it a while back the customer service rep even yelled at me telling me that I could not and did not want to cancel.

Well my husband and I are trying to purchase a home now and this stupid company is standing in our way. Our mortgage company is trying to get information from them and they keep ignoring their requests. My husband was on a conference call with the mortgage company and they asked our address to verify identity and when my husband gave them our address they just said that is not what we have on file and hung up on him (they have sent mail to our current address so they were full of crap)honestly I just want to be done with company I do not nor would I ever recommend them.

We never even got to use their services they were always "booked" what is the point of a service if you can't use it???

Mmm. Was this a problem with Worldmark, or Trendwest/Wyndham, I wonder? Probably the latter.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Caveat Emptor

2008-11-07T09:55:00.003+11:00

From a reader:

When we went to the Worldmark sales office at Wolf Creek to find out more about vacation ownership, I won’t lie, we were interested in buying. However, we had never really looked into it before and had no idea what the cost of a membership was.

When our salesmen revealed the price, we were visibly and verbally shocked. We had previously mentioned our interest in buying and noticing our shock at the price, our salesmen began giving us suggestions on how to offset the cost by having our membership pay for itself. He suggested we do something he had done to pay for his membership.

He goes on to say, “I couldn’t afford to go on vacation while I was paying off my membership credits, so I let my family and friends use my credits along with Bonus time, to book there vacations”. He goes on to give several examples of hotel prices in places like Las Vegas, Hawaii and other pricey destinations. Explaining that “It’s easy to make money having other people use your credits. They paid me and I used the money to pay for my membership credits, so they were basically free, and now that my membership is paid off” he explains “I let family and friends use Bonus Time and charge them double my cost, a few times a year, and pay my dues that way. Even at double the cost they are still getting a great deal”.

When we asked “What if we can’t find anyone who wants to use our credits or bonus time”? Our salesman was again very helpful and explained that we own our membership and we could sell anytime. Then he proceeded to show us a chart explaining that as the company grows the price of credits goes up, leading us to believe that our credits would appreciate in value.

As you can imagine, at this point with all our questions answered we felt quite at ease and we began the purchase process. We purchased in the summer and immediately began spreading the word to friends and family that we could get them a discount on accommodations for there next vacation. We had many takers and tried to book using credits or bonus time on many occasions. We were unable to find availability at any of the desired locations, even with help from members of the Worldmark staff.

Becoming more and more aware that what our salesmen suggested we do was not a possibility, we looked into selling. My heart sank as I realized the credits we bought less then three months earlier had decreased in value by 50% and selling was not an option.

Why is this OK? HELP!!!!! Can we get our money back?

Sigh.

This reminds me of the latin phrase, Caveat emptor, which translates to Let the buyer beware. Or perhaps it should be There's no such thing as a free lunch.

As to the price of credits going up — yes, the price goes up, but their value doesn't. Just because somebody sells a cheeseburger for twice the price, it doesn't mean that its twice as good.

When I attended my session, there was no way I was going to sign anything on the night. A big investment like that is something that needs thought and analysis. If someone walked up to me on the street and asked for $15, I'd think twice before handing over the cash. I'd certainly think twice when it's $15,000 (or more!).

Can you get your money back? No. Maybe you could sell holidays on eBay using your points, but you'd be liable for any damage done by renters. I recommend you sell to Red Season or via eBay and get back whatever you can, before you end up paying even more in quarterly fees.

Let this be a (rather expensive) lesson in trust and due diligence. In my case, I'm making the information on this blog available to the public, so that people can do their own research on the topic before committing to the purchase.

It reminds me how, during my sales session, I was told that the offer was only available if I signed that night. I said "surely I can come back another day and get the same deal?", to which I was told that "nobody ever comes back another day". Looks like those people did their research, too.

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Airmen, Ozarks & Iraq

2008-10-26T08:24:00.002+11:00

A recent comment from a reader...

My husband and I bought into Worldmark in July 2004, at 23 years old, and just a few months after we got married. We are both Active Duty Air Force, just Airmen at the time. So, while stationed in Phoenix, we got a call for a free 3-day stay in Vegas plus a free gift if we sat thru the 90 minute presentation. Our parents were coming to visit so we took them up on the offer and signed up our parents too. The young guy on the phone was very friendly, a local in phoenix doing telemarketing.

We drove up and checked into the Sahara Hotel where our rooms were waiting for us. We then headed over to the Vegas Resort for the presentation. Everyone was really friendly, and we didn't feel pressured. We DID have an "Open Mind" going into the presentation, we were there to have a good time and enjoy ourselves. We weren't there for the free gift or even the free hotel nights, we manage our money carefully and could have afforded the hotel on our own...we just thought it was something new to try.

After the corny video and the presentation, we felt Worldmark would fit into our Military lifestyle, so we purchased 10,000 credits. I do wish we knew about buying in from the broker websites at a cheaper rate, but still, we have no regrets. Our parents delcined to purchase that day (they just went for us). They WERE NOT treated the way others describe on this site, everyone at the Vegas resort was really respectful....but we treated them with respect too.

We've been owners 4 years now and we still love it. We travel so much with the Air Force that its given us the chance to visit lots of resorts. So far we've visited: Cabo San Lucas, Grand Lake OK, Branson Mo, Lake of the Ozarks Mo, Pine Top AZ, Vegas, Steamboat Springs CO. (incredible skiing!), and Rancho Vistoso AZ. We are stationed in Japan right now. We'd like to visit the Fiji resort and Carins Australia while we are here.

The resorts are beautiful, I love having the washer/dryer, full kitchen, utencils/pots/pans, paper towels & bathrobes! The staff members have been incredible every time...its like staying w/family...they know all the good local restaraunts and will do anything they can to make your stay more comfortable. In Cabo they hosted several free classes about local shopping, tours, ice-cream socials, etc. For our 10K credits we pay about $450 per year in maint fees, which we pay quarterly by automatic withdrawal. Some may say this is alot of money, but we have steady incomes...and its something we value in our lives.

We've both been to Iraq 3x each since we became owners, and we always celebrate our homecomings with a worldmark trip. It gives us something to look forward to, and its fun to use the website to search resorts. I leave again for Iraq January 2009. If God doesnt bring me home this time, I know that my husband will cherish all the memories we shared....especially our incredible vacations. Life is way too short, Worldmark is a great way to enjoy it!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Wyndham: Disneyland or Used Cars?

2008-09-16T12:06:00.002+10:00

I received this comment buried on a previous post, and thought it worthy of a main post (with improved punctuation):

It seems to me that Worldmark [Editorial comment: It's actually Wyndham, not Worldmark] needs to police their telemarketing contractors a little (OK a lot) more closely if they are, in fact, not trying to use high pressure to try and make them sign the contract, even if they tell you that its not possible to afford.

[I just had a] phone call, telling me that I had entered a drawing for $75,000 and had been selected for the second and final grand prize drawing (first outright lie) and that I had "won" a 3 day, 2 night package for either Vegas or Disneyland including free airfare, hotel, and amusement park tickets (came to find out that's another lie as the tickets will cost $50 per person up-front).

So I tell her (the telemarketer) I only live about 45 minutes from Disneyland — just send me the tickets for the park, forget the airfare and the hotel. Then she says I need verify your info and asks if my annual income is more than $40,000 a year. When I tell her "not at this time", she tells me to just say it is when I go to pick up my tickets (no mention of sitting through a sales pitch). So I say OK.

Then she asks are you married or single and since I'm still married but separated I tell her "neither". She says "just tell them you're single and own your own business they'll never check that anyway" (OK now I'm being coached at what lies to tell I DON'T LIKE TO LIE!!). But I tell her OK anyway and she rattles off about 6 different time slots that "she" has available for me to come to a fairly local location and pick up my tickets (still no mention of any sales presentation), so I set it up for about a week from now.

After hanging up I start to wonder and can't remember entering any drawings so I Google the company name she gave me (Worldmark) and after looking at one of their pages I stumble on this page (there may really be a God after all). I may have become irate when I arrived at [Wyndham] and wasn't just handed my prize winnings and sent on my way since the telemarketer (I'm positive it was unsolicited and we're on the Don't Call List BTW) never once mentioned that this was just a 'come on' to get anyone over 25 and willing to lie about their income into their "used car" showroom for a pressure test.

I want to thank those that shared their experiences with [Wyndham] for giving me an idea about what's really going on there. I think I'll take the kids to Disneyland on my own.

Phew!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

A $1500 lesson?

2008-09-12T06:32:00.002+10:00

This just in from a reader:

My husband and I went to a Worldmark presentation last month and bought 7000 credits. We signed all the paper and paid $1500 deposit. We've attended the education workshop right away. I started to have the access to the on-line booking since last week...and I'm totally disappointed for the fact that 1) the availability of those popular places are extremely low 2) the fees for all-inclusive resorts are much higher than I thought - the extra fees were not mentioned at all during the presentation 3) cruises are much expensive than what I can get from my travel agent. My husband just wants to get out of Worldmark at this point. $1500 to learn a lesson!! Do you think we can just stop all future payments and leave?

Alas, I think you are in trouble. You need to review your contract and seek legal advice. Wyndham make their money this way and aren't likely to release you so easily. You might be lucky if you have not received any credits to date (it depends on what it meant by a "deposit"). I think this lesson will be costing you a lot more than $1500.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

2008-09-11T08:36:00.000+10:00

A story from a reader...

We went to the presentation and got $75 of gift cards for home depot. We thought the premium plan sounded nice for someone who could afford it and had plans for vacationing every year for the rest of their lives. It's nice that the benefits can be passed on to your heir also, but we just could not afford it. We bought the trial package and went home. We looked online at resales and found some great deals so we went in the next day and canceled our trial package. The lady behind the desk took our folder and all of our trial member info.

We noticed the monthly fee was still coming out for the trial package two months later, so we called and they claimed we never canceled. We didn't have the receipt... our fault I know... proving we canceled so we were stuck. They have no cameras in the Oceanside CA office so they couldn't look back and SEE that we came in and canceled and OUR RECORD HAD NOT BEEN UPDATED to show that we canceled.... that's shady if you ask me. They don't put anything on your record or remove it when you cancel? It just sits there as if you had never made a change? That can't be true. I've read so many stories on here of the EXACT SAME SITUATION that it must be their policy. It is a good deal, but there are better ones... and that's just shady business tricking people like that. HOLD ON TO YOUR CANCELLATION RECEIPT IF YOU DO CANCEL!

Now we are having trouble even getting info on how to use this trial experience that is now paid off. We'll let you know if the accommodations are worth the price of the trial. (probably not though after comparing online prices!)

Anyway, there are BETTER deals out there! Just good Worldmark or Trendwest resale!

If you only committed to the trial and owe them nothing more, then it sounds like you got off cheaply. Yes, it's much cheaper to buy points from eBay or Redseason!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Election Fever

2008-08-30T06:55:00.003+10:00

It seems like there's some dissatisfaction amongst WorldMark The Club owners (not WorldMark South Pacific) with regard to the Board of Directors.

Here's a message being sent out by WMowners, the online user forum for WorldMark owners:

Dear Fellow WorldMark Owner:

An independent WorldMark owner has put before the Board of Directors a proposal that would:

Eliminate Conflict of Interest by preventing anyone who is or has been an employee of the Developer from serving on the Board of Directors
Require that vacancies in the Board (whether by expansion of the Board or any other cause) be filled by vote of the members, not by appointment by the sitting Board
Require a vote of the membership to accept new resorts that do not fit certain benchmarks for Credit Allocation
In order for this proposal to be brought before the members of the Club for discussion and vote, it must have written support of 5% of the voting power of the Club. WM Owners reviewed the proposal and the petition, and fully supports this drive. We urge you to do the same.

Please follow the link to the petition that is being circulated to owners in the hope that these changes can be made to help protect our club from further devaluation. Please, strongly consider participating in this petition drive and encouraging other WorldMark Owners you know to do the same.

The petition will simply get the proposals put before the owners, and is not an approval of the proposals.

Please join us if you . . .
are concerned that the current WorldMark Directors' connections to the developer and manager, Wyndham, may hinder their ability to act in the best interest of the owners.
would like to know that vacancies on the board will be filled by an owner independent of Wyndham or any of its affiliates.
are concerned about the fact that all new resorts are coming in at higher credit values and believe that your ability to lock-in tomorrow's vacations at today's prices is being impacted as a result.

It's good to see the Owners trying to safeguard their investment. One member, Marci Tribe, is also pushing the case. Nice website.

In the meantime, the on-market value of WorldMark memberships continue to fall, being worth around one third of the value sold through Wyndham.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

How to get our of Worldmark?

2008-08-21T06:23:00.002+10:00

Unfortunately, I often receive questions from readers, such as this one from Susan:

My husband and I went to the presentation and bought it, but now are desperately trying to sell our 6,000 points. Let me know if anyone has any great ideas on how to sell to another WorldMark owner that loves vacationing or to someone new. We are willing to sell the points for much less than the original price. We just got in over our heads!

All I can suggest is eBay or RedSeason, where credits seem to be going for around $1 (which is their true market value, not the $2 that Wyndham charges).

It's probably better to buy from a broker such as RedSeason or Time Share Angels, just to get all the paperwork right. Some of the people selling on eBay and practically no money, but want you to assume their debt, which can be half the problem in the first place.

Good luck!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Human beings with a break-even

2008-07-17T14:05:00.003+10:00

An anonymous reader left a comment on the "Having fun with Trendwest/Wyhdham sales dudes" post from February. I thought their comments worthy of their own post:

Do you not realize that salespeople are human beings simply working to try to make an income, same as you in your job?

You are STEALING from them!

You cannot go to a presentation with intent to just get the gift and leave WITHOUT LYING! How do I know? Because I've sold timeshares, both for Wyndham and other companies.

If you go to a presentation, do not do it to mooch, but to express a sincere interest in BUYING something. To do otherwise is DECEPTIVE.

Your Karma WILL come back around on you, have you considered this being worth the $50?

Your point about the product being overpriced is not true. Worldmark's product is very reasonable for what you get, where you can go, and the long-term value and one of the best deals in the industry. Most timeshare owners break-even in 8.8 years. Worldmark owners break-even, on average, in 4.4 years.

Get a clue and get a life! I'm surprised Worldmark hasn't sued you.

Why don't you write about something you KNOW something about, rather than spew this crap to people as if you're an expert?

Mmm. If you break-even with Worldmark after 4.4 years, and you can buy memberships for half-price via eBay or Redseason, does that mean you can break-even in 2.2 years? I'd like to see that math!

Of often mentioned by readers of this blog, WorldMark is pretty good — it's just the Wyndham/Trendwest bit that rakes the money and grates the people.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Run by a business, not by members

2008-07-03T07:35:00.003+10:00

There's an interesting group called WM Owners based in the USA. It's run by current WorldMark owners as a means of sharing information. You see, it appears that WorldMark (and especially Wyndham, who are the mob that sell the new WorldMark units) don't really like existing owners talking to each other, especially when it comes to selling WorldUnit credits or, in this case, voting for the board.

Here's one of their recent newsletters:

DON'T GIVE WYNDHAM YOUR PROXY!!!

If you have not yet received a letter from "WorldMark by Wyndham" requesting that you sign over a three-year proxy, you soon will. DON'T DO IT. Instead, use the form you can find here to assign your proxy to Philip Abdouch, an independent owner who will combine our strength to get an INDEPENDENT owner elected to the Board of Directors. Philip is a dedicated owner-advocate and was three times a candidate for the Board of Directors. Last year he was kept off the Board solely by the votes and proxies held by Wyndham and by the Wyndham-controlled Board of Directors. For an explanation, look here.

Wyndham claims that the Directors are "active WorldMark owners" who work to ensure that the Club is run in accordance with our governing documents and in the best interest of the majority of owners. Four of the five Directors are or were high-level employees of our Developer! Consider the following:

"Each an active WorldMark owner"? Yes, they are owners. But did they purchase WorldMark credits as a significant investment in their vacation futures? Or was their ownership just a small portion of their corporate compensation package and a requirement to be eligible to sit on the board? Did they own PRIOR to becoming employees or Board members?

"Conform to existing governing documents"/"in the best interest of the majority of owners"? Recent decisions that this Board has approved or allowed:

Public rental of WorldMark units however and whenever Wyndham decides (more information here)

New resorts have SIGNIFICANTLY higher credit values, diluting the value of OUR investments (more info here)

New "TravelShare" developer program is prejudicial against existing owners, and threatens to eliminate the Bonus Time program. (more info here and here.) It is currently the target of a class-action lawsuit on behalf of existing owners (read more here.)

Why a proxy drive? Wyndham claims they need proxies in order to achieve the 15% quorum required to hold an election and conduct business at the Annual Meeting. Never in the history of WorldMark has there been a problem with achieving the 15% quorum to conduct business. Their desire for your proxy is not to reach the 15% quorum, but to control YOUR vote. If their interest were only in achieving a quorum, they would vote the proxies equally among all candidates and issues so as to not override the votes of ordinary owners. Instead, in each of the past three elections the Board has voted the proxies in such a way as to directly counter the votes of the owners, changing the outcome of the election! (Read about it here and here.)

Our Board of Directors is supposed to represent Owners in dealings with Wyndham, our Developer and Manager. But four of the five are career senior employees of Wyndham! The letter itself is on the letterhead of WorldMark by Wyndham, not WorldMark the Club, and is signed by Dave Herrick as Sr. Vice President of WorldMark by Wyndham. Yet the letter opens by saying that he is writing "on behalf of the WorldMark Board". Wouldn't that be the job of our Board President, Gene Hensley? And no where in the letter does Mr. Herrick mention that his is one of the positions up for re-election this year; he is seeking to maintain Wyndham's control of WorldMark's Board of Directors by using YOUR votes to re-elect HIMSELF!

IF YOU ARE GOING TO ASSIGN A THREE-YEAR PROXY, ASSIGN IT TO SOMEONE WHO IS OUT TO HELP THE OWNERS, NOT CONTROL THEM!

This email was created and sent to you by www.WMOwners.com,
an independent, owner-run website dedicated to:

Supporting Owner Advocacy

Providing Education

Encouraging Open Communication

Creating Community

The purpose of this communication is to keep you, as
an interested WorldMark owner, aware of and involved in
the changes affecting your club. Thank you to all the
WorldMark owners that have helped us reach out and touch
other owners by providing us contact information.
Another great example of what makes this club so great,
owners helping owners! For more information on any of
the issues mentioned in this message, visit us at

www.WMOwners.com.

WM Owners is not in any way responsible for, nor does
it have any influence on the actions of WVO (Wyndham
Vacation Ownership) or the WorldMark Board of Directors.

Disclaimer: Information contained within OWNER ALERTS is obtained
from various sources including but not limited to: public forums, web sites, email solicitations, WorldMark
owners and non-WorldMark owners. Neither wmowners.com nor its Principals are responsible for the accuracy of the
statements and information contained within OWNER ALERTS. If you would like to stop receiving such messages, please log
in to the discussion forum at www.wmowners.com/forum, select the Profile link and choose not to receive periodic
owner alerts any longer. If you received this e-mail and are NOT registered on the forum, your e-mail address was provided by
a forum member and you can reply to this e-mail with "OPT OUT" as the subject and further alerts will not be sent.
All recipients are encouraged to be responsible consumers and fully investigate the
information contained herein for themselves.

©2008, WM Owners - www.wmowners.com. All trademarks contained herein are the property of their respective
owners.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Underage and Underfunded -> Class Action?

2008-05-21T12:21:00.002+10:00

This message was left recently by a visitor on the blog:

I'm in Australia and am having similar problems with this company. They lured me into their sales meeting with promises of a free gift, and suckered me into signing up for 7,000 credits. The thing is, to qualify to buy credits, you have to be over 25 and earning a certain income, right? Well my girlfriend co-signed with me and she was under 25 and earning much less than the required income. But they still let her sign the contract. So she couldn't afford to make her half of the repayments and now I've been stuck with the full brunt of the $196 monthly payments PLUS the upkeep levies which are probably now in excess of $1000 they say I owe them. It's killing me and I can't afford to pay it.

I've put probably over $5000 into these timeshares so far and haven't even used any of it yet. What I would like to do is cancel my contract and recover all my money back on legal grounds!

On what grounds could I file a lawsuit?

Please email me on bossplaya77(at)optusnet.com.au if you have any advice or can help.

Perhaps we could get together a group of people who are in a similar boat with Trendwest in Australia and file a Class Action lawsuit against the company.

I will be consulting some lawyers and getting some legal advice soon. Please email me on above email address if you wish to put your name down for a Class Action lawsuit against Trendwest, cancel your contract and get your money back!

Jesse Ward

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Couldn't be happier

2008-05-09T07:51:00.000+10:00

A recent positive comment left on this blog:

Wow, you folks seem to feel like you were really mis-treated! My experience with World Mark has been the exact opposite. I bought my ownership a little over a year ago from an off site location in Tri-cities WA. Our salesman was very kind, courteous and helpful. After sitting through the presentation vacation ownership made perfect financial sense...our choices were keep renting our vacations (100%) loss of our hard earned $$$ or own our vacations and keep the money we were already committed to spending on vacations.

If you attend the owner education class you will learn how to work this ownership to your advantage. We have never not gotten a reservation. It takes just a little common sense to use this. If you desire a location that is very popular you need to book it out in advance. I have gotten Seaside in June(high season) by putting myself on a wait list in April and I got it. Peoples plans change all the time! As far as the dues are concerned I look at it as a savings because when my ownership is paid off I could never vacation 7 times a year in luxurious condos on 600.00 a year. Last year alone we went to the Oregon coast 3 times, Hawaii, Maui for 8 days, Leavenworth for Thanksgiving for a week, Seattle on opening day of the Seahawks, and Arrowpoint in Idaho! Some of those trips in peak season. I researched this and WM has the lowest annual dues in the industry. They only feel stupid because you haven't taken the time to learn how to use this! If you own a car or house you have to pay something to maintain it...right?

WorldMark has been one of the BEST decisions we ever made when it came to vacations. We have more memories as a family traveling with WM than renting our vacations from a hotel chain. Lets face it staying in a 300 square foot room with 2 little kids isn't so much fun! I would only consider your 12K down the drain only because you have made the choice to not ask for help on how to use it. And is there really a need to insult your salesperson...he feeds his family the same way you do.

As for the phone calls...if you don't want them to call you why not ask them to put you on the Do Not call list? Plus I find it really hard to believe that they are calling you at 3:30 in the morning. WM is the largest vacation ownership company only second to Marriott and they didn't get that big by making people mad by calling in the wee hours of the morning. Give me a break!

My family and I couldn't be happier with our ownership. As far as I am concerned WM is the most reputable company in the timeshare industry. I would recommend WM to anyone...in fact most of my friends and family already own!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Having fun with Trendwest/Wyhdham sales dudes.

2008-02-04T07:53:00.001+11:00

A comment from a reader:

I like to go to the sales office in Broomfield, CO as long as they promise me a real tangable gift I can take home with me that day. I always toss the free trip in the trash but keep the cash! Their office is on my way home from work so if I have the time I stop by for the presentation. I chat with them, smile and say no thanks. If you push them on the first phone call they will always offer the free "crappy" trip but will also throw in merchant gift cards as well which you can spend right away. I have received $75 in Home Depot cards, $40 in resturant cards and some other stuff I can't remember. You have to get them to offer the cash when they first call you however, and the boiler room callers are rather clueless. The last time they offered me the resturant gift cards,(Red Lobster), they said I could only use them while I was on my free vacation. I asked how the resturant would know I was on vacation and if Red Lobster would deny them if I was really arriving from home? What if I went on the free trip, came home and then used them? Would they be no good? They caved and said "I don't know"

I like the writing upside down bit and actually I think the overall product has some good value. It just isn't something I want or need since I already travel alot. As someone else mentioned as well, I would never plunk down 30K for something I just heard about, and I could invest that 30K instead, grow it and have plenty for vacations with a lot left over.

It is way overpriced, they could go out of business, who knows. I do like watching them push push push with those sales tactics, it's kinda entertaining for an hour and a half. Go for the CASH!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Take it or not

2007-11-20T07:55:00.000+11:00

From a recent reader...

Currently I have family members who are Trendwest owners and I’ve had the privilege of visiting several of their vacation spots. I have never had a bad experience with them while staying at one of their resorts. They usually went beyond our expectations. That’s the good part.

The not-so-good part is, I wanted to check out a presentation and get the free trip as well. I’m not sure where they got my number but we got the phone call to attend a “90-minute presentation”. My wife and I went to check it out and three hours later, got the ticket “voucher” for the trip to California (I guess showing a little interest causes this). We actually stayed until they closed up shop because they still weren’t convince that we couldn’t afford it.  Well, we made it out alive. Later we found out that trying to get an available date was like pulling teeth (which must be hard because everyone says it, but I’m not a dentist). My wife had to call several times to get them to send us the package that had dates available and then she had to mail the request to them for the dates we wanted. There was a lot of back and forth and finally when we thought everything was settled, they called us to inform us of a better package deal where you spend more than one day in California. We weren’t interested in spending more money so we wanted it just the way it was. The guy on the phone started to get frustrated and quite rude because he couldn’t seem to get us to “upgrade” the deal. Then they try to get us to take $200 US to cancel the vacation. We said no. Well, a month before we’re supposed to take out “vacation”, we get another phone call saying it’s urgent and they have some important information about our trip. So, we call them back and they are telling us now that they “overbooked” the vacation and if we’re willing to take $200 again (looking for volunteers of those who booked to cancel). Once again, we said no… surprise surprise, she asked “ will you take $250? No?” So now we’re wondering how high they’ll go, lol. If you want to deal with a little stress and don’t take the money, you might be in for a good trip, otherwise, my wife and I might consider taking the money after all because it just doesn’t seem worth all the trouble. Don’t get me wrong, the resorts they have are well worth the money we’ve spent visiting them, but trying to get the free trip without hassles, is a whole other story. They just don’t seem like they want to give it to people who turned them down.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Holy Smokes!

2007-11-10T12:26:00.000+11:00

This comment was left by an anonymous visitor on an earlier blog post:

Holy smokes!!!! I know you can't please everyone all of the time, but you people are unbelivable. I purchased Worldmark 3 years ago. I have never had problems using it. I love my worldmark credits without them I could never travel the way I do.

All I am hearing is ignorance here. Why would you spend so much time and energy tearing down something that you it is obivous that you know nothing about. Yeah big deal they have crumby marketing and they all use the same presentation. At least they helped me and others to spend time with our familys. Maybe you all should consider it instead of spending your lives bitching about nothing.

Oh for those of you that say nothing is available. Ha! I stayed in Anahiem in August on Bonus Time! Learn how to use what you own it's only a tool! You have to operate it correctly! I think that makes it your fault. MORONS!!!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Knowing how it works

2007-09-29T16:01:00.000+10:00

Here's a comment left on an earlier post:

Worldmark vacation credits is a smart way to vacation. All of you that are complaining about everything are complaining because you don't know how to use it effectively! As far as making reservations, you have to be aware of the different seasons. Most of you are probably making a reservation during a high season couple days in advance.

If you want to use the resorts in high demand seasons (such as Orlando, San Diego, Hawaii, and Anaheim) you should plan it out ahead and give them advance notice. Most of the the people that are dissatisfied with their ownership are unhappy because they don't know how it works.

Worldmark offers owner classes at the resorts (and even online. Seriously people, if you know more about how the credti system works, it really makes sense and is a great flexible way to vacation.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

A good word

2007-09-16T01:20:00.000+10:00

This was left as a comment on an earlier posting, but it's worth posting here as a separate blog post:

Too bad this lady feels this way. I have been a Worldmark Owner for about five years now. I was smart enough to know when I went that someone was going to try and sell me something. They tried and I decided to purchase about 1/3 of the credits they initially tried to sell me. My cost less then $300.00 a month.

The cost, method of financing, billing and resort usage was just as stated in the reams of paperwork I was given. Yes, I did read all the important documents before signing anything.

I have now went to Vegas three times, Lake Chalan in Washington, The Beach Resort At Blaine WA., and am leavng for SanDiego next Week.

I could not be happier with the Club and the way I have been treated. At each resort they do have a little presentation they want you to sit through so they can try and sell you more credits. You don't have to take part but I have set through all of them. Twice I have purchased more credits as I have enjoyed the Club and found it to be exactly as represented. The other times I was honest with them up front and told them when I was setting up the appointment for the presentation that I would not be buying more credits at that time. They still gave me $50 or $75 each time I went just for showing up.

I think the term "Open Minded" was used to ask the lady to have a little trust and to at least listen to the presentation as she had agreed to do. Don't come expecting to be taken advantage of as then the experience is not pleasurable for you or them. Listen to the presentations, ask questions other then where's my free gift, and when its over you can say not at this time but thanks for explaining it all to me. You will receive your gift and that is that.

Not everyone in this world is out there to rip you off and take advantage of you. I too learned late in life this fact. Did I ever blow allot of good years, absolutely.

I am dying from Hepatitis C and will not likely be around too much longer to take advantage of the dreams I had when I first purchased my little block of credits but I bet my son and daughter as well as their families have the time of their lifes many times over for many years to come.

Workmark continues to grow and now I think they have over 250,000 satisfied owners.

I wish this lady the best and hope that she will try and have an open mind. That means in my book, listen, ask and then verify.

Ralph

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Worldmark not a good idea for the disabled

2007-09-14T19:36:00.000+10:00

This came in from a reader who is disabled...

Well, Trendwest facilities are not accessible to persons with disabilities. After 18 months of trying to find resorts that I could go to... I concluded that there are none and requested a cancellation of my trial membership. No dice. So, I have to use facilities that put me at risk of injury. Great concept but, not a good result. Tell the whole story, ok?

Jeffery

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Apparently it's about being 'Open Minded'

2007-09-14T19:26:00.000+10:00

I just loved this story sent in by a reader...

I am glad that I found this website which prevented me from those vultures. Now read this...

I received a phone call from Worldmark (Timeshare, Trendwest) saying that I won a trip to Vegas/Orlando and I just have to come for a presentation. I was ensured that I will get a flight ticket (for 2) and 3 days, 2 nights hotel stay. I am very happy as we recently planned to go there but could not. One of my friends told me that they had a bad experience and have to come back as they went there 15 min late. Then I read all the reviews here in THIS website and got complete idea, BUT still I thought I would give a try.

I went there 30 min before..The room was good, colorful with pretty girls (someone here referred them as pros and I think they are right). I said I am here to receive my 'free gift'. They asked me to sign a paper saying that it's my gift, however, I just have to attend a presentation. I saw several people there (at least 20) - I got a doubt that why so many people were selected for gifts thru a draw!!!

I was greeted by a sales guy and went inside (it's in Broomfield, CO) and then my headache started. He started telling about all the goodness it is associated with and why I should consider it with an 'OPEN MIND'. I was reluctant and was not in a mood to answer all his Stupid questions. (BTW there was huge noise with all rock music and all other sales guys/gays/pros were jumping, shouting with balloons etc). When he observed my silence he was very angry (believe me his face turned red) and told me that I am wasting his time..How funny...I went there all the way from N Colorado wasting MY time and this guy told me the other way!

Then we were taken to a presentation for 15 min followed by some asshole's intro. Then there were 2 more gifts, one for shouting and jumping among all the viewrs and other for having maximum total numbers in a credit card.. Then after the presentation, we were again accompanied by the same guy and then he stared talking again and again (some one in these reviews even mentioned that they can write upside down) and they are right. He started taking out all his books and other info one by one and told how well it fits my budget.. I am a student and I earn almost nothing and the worldmark deal is $616 per month and they still tell me that I can afford it!!! How FUNNY..

Then I decided to go even without my gift (I have been asking him whether its real or just a prank) and he was really angry, shouting at me why I am not OPENMINDED! He said I am a liar, and I do not have dreams!!! It seems I should sign up for a villa in Hawaii..I was annoyed and my blood pressure increased so much that I just blasted him (Believe me, everyone was looking at us). ONLY THEN he calmed down.. He called the sales manager and that FAT bastard is the biggest jerk I have ever seen. He was like a drug addicted pig and started telling the same thing and asking me to sign (it was almost like having me to sign on a paper forcibly). I just said a big NO and started walking off. He then stood on my way and asked me to sign on the paper, the rudest day I have ever had!

I just walked down...Not over yet. Then a beautiful lady came to me and said I can have a lower deal also. But I said NO again (I think I told NO for at least 50 times)..I just walked off to the entrance of their office. Then someone kept a file in my hand. I opened and checked it (although it's just stupidity, out of a hope I looked in it). Now the rules and regulations of the crappy gift..You need to pay $50 per person and then fill out a form and send to the address given without a time period. (50 dollars is refundable..is it?!). Then they will (hopefully) send you a reservation package.. There are several harsh regulations.. No trip during weekends, holidays.. Only on Mon, Tues, Wed in between 3-10pm, Then come back by the day after at 7 AM. How funny.. I also read in one of the reviews that the worldmark resorts are very bad and the agents there will make hell of your life.

So Guys, be careful of these dragons.. they are very very bad…NEVER LIFT A PHONE WHEN WORLDMARK calls!! That’s the best thing you can do.. All the best..Now..I am planning to go to Vegas on my own during Christmas! I just trashed their offer! God bless you all..

I have nothing to add to that one!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

A bunch of crooks

2007-07-06T08:46:00.000+10:00

'BurnedinCA' left this comment:

My wife and I were also dumb enough to get sucked in to the TrendWest/Wyndham BS. Bought a premium membership, paid CASH (I thought those morons in San Dimas would cream their jeans) and never use it because every place we want to go is always "booked"....HOWEVER, WHEN THEIR STUPID DUES ARE DUE THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO FIND US. What a bunch of crooks. We will sell and take the loss just to get away from them. Theres 12K down the drain...

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Getting Out is hard to do

2007-06-28T01:35:00.000+10:00

Does anyone have advice for this reader?

My wife and I got pulled into a bad trendwest experience. I was wondering if you have any info on how trendwest handles people who don’t pay on their package. Do they hand it over to collections and are those collection companies very aggressive. I am willing to deal with phone calls I just don’t want to end up in court. Thanks.

Miami, OK

span style="font-size:78%;">Tags: trendwest worldmark

An interrogation mindset

2007-05-27T01:46:00.000+10:00

Another comment from a reader, in response to "At last, some benefit!":

That's exactly my experience, thought I didn't get an old lady. I got a slick black guy manager on the second stage who accused me of pushing him into something illegal when I told him "Oh come on, there's no way you ain't gonna take my money if I offer it to you some other day instead of today".

It was nuts. The hardsellers were gruesome, and it felt like being in a nazi interrogation room, I felt like I was being worked over. The experience was so vile I threw away my free 'vacation' - I just don't want anything to do with these people ever again, and I figured the vacation would be a 'fast one' of lots of hidden costs. No thanks. These guys are masters of putting you on their 'never do business with them as long as you live' type of mindset.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Two stories of revenge

2007-05-17T21:24:00.000+10:00

So often I hear from people who regretted their dealings, it was great to read these comments left by two readers:

My wife and I had a similar experience. We were interested in the premium membership, but concerned with the now or never part. After claifying the cooling off period, we purchased. I went home and researched. I found you could buy a membership through a resale broker for 1/2 the amount they charged. I took my "I changed my mind letter" in the next day. I contacted a broker and had a 6000 credit membership for less than 1/2 the price. They weren't very happy. That made it even more pleasurable. We enjoyed a great week in Branson, MO last summer. We look forward to more in the future.

And one story of somebody who didn't even go that far:

My friend just got into Trendwest and he was trying to get me and my fiancé to join. He took me to a free dinner that they paid for and setup a time to do a meeting with one of their sellers/owners. It was set for tomorrow and she called me twice while I was at work on my cell phone and the second time left a message to call her. I called her to tell her to cancel the meeting because I have been reading to many complaints from people that got with their service and are regretting it very much. And about the different law suits that are going on. I am very thankful that I looked into the company before I went to the meeting. I was still going to say no to them but now I don’t even want their "free" gift that they said they had just for coming to their meeting. I don’t want something from a company that is like this, even if it is "free".

I am glad that I found these blogs and reports about this company to know how much they suck before I got into it. It sounds nice but thats how they get you.

Mmm, indeed!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

At last, some benefit!

2007-05-12T10:10:00.001+10:00

Too often I hear from people who discovered this information too late.

Well, it's nice to hear from this reader who seems to have done their research in advance:

Hi, I'm not sure if this is of any interest to you, as I did not sign anything or purchase anything, but I thought you might find this amusing.

It started with the call telling me I won a prize. So I knew I didn't win anything, and it turned out to be a bribe to come to a time-share sales pitch. I wanted the $50 gift card so I decided to go, with full intent of course that I was not buying anything. The caller told me the company was TrendWest so I googled it and found your blog, and some other information about complaints, lawsuits, etc.

You all know the basics, I'm sure - but I found it so amusing the way they did it. They assigned me a "customer service rep" who chatted me up and asked me lots of questions about my ideal vacations, writing down my answers as if they mattered. She warned me that once I go in to the group presentation, I can't be considered a first-timer ever again, and if I didn't buy today, I'd lose all sorts of first-time incentive perks, so I better be serious.

After the group presentation, the pressure began. I'd already come up with a whole alter-ego and a back story to give them, complete with an imaginary boyfriend who really would rather spend our money on cruises, an inheritance coming in a few months, etc. It was great fun to BS the BS'ers.

When I started to say my firm no, here's what happened, in order:

"If you weren't going to buy today, you shouldn't have gone in to the presentation. I warned you! You told me you were serious about buying today!"

"Let me talk to my manager and see if he can help."

"We're going to do something very unusual, and offer you a free week if you buy today (then two weeks, then three weeks)."

"I'm not supposed to tell you this, but if you donate a week, you can write the whole thing off your taxes. I donate a week of mine to the church." (That was my all-time favorite line of the day.)

"You could also give the trip to your parents for their anniversary!" I mention that my parents are dead...two minutes later, a 70-ish kindly woman comes up and starts speaking to me very sweetly about her daughter.

Once the no-nonsense manager figured out I was a no, they all turned into mean little trolls, with my customer service rep sarcastically saying with a bite in her voice, "Enjoy your trip!" The manager told her, "Forget it. She's a nobody." Then "Mom" walked away sadly, saying she wished she could have had a chance to get to know me better.

If you want more details, feel free to write back. Thanks for the great blog - you're helping a lot of people avoid victimhood.

-Karen, Albuquerque, New Mexico

Glad to be of service!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Too much, too late

2007-04-25T09:58:00.000+10:00

I received this message from a reader:

Hi Fabbo,

I was reading your blog tonight and really appreciated.

I have to confess I didn't diligently researched TrendWest before making the decision. I was so excited by the picture of nice resorts and holidays and wasn't thinking carefully about the financial obligation and the availability of service.

I wish I had been to your website before. Now we are sucked in the situation that TrendWest does not allow us to cancel the contract and request us to pay the dues and the balance of the contract.

Compared to others who have already paid their price, we seem had not lost too much. But we are not better off, because we probably have to go through legal process to get rid of TrendWest. But I will for sure file complaints against TrendWest.

TrendWest had complaints in US and Australia and seems hasn't get any in BC, Canada. I hope the organizations in BC will do something to protect the consumers from their deceiving sales and unfair contract.

After all, thank you for this website, which provides lots of useful information. I will ensure my friends not get in this TrendWest trick.

Sophia

Not much I can add to that one. People can be forgiven for not researching before attending a TrendWest session (after all, they don't know what will be presented). However, it would be good if people didn't sign up on the night, or at least exercised their colling-off period. That way, they could always buy online for half the price1

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

It's not too late...

2007-03-16T10:12:00.000+11:00

This comment was left on the Blog, and I thought I'd publish it to make it more visible:

Dear Fabbo,

I'm going to leave a comment on Trendwest, which is based in the Oregon area. I went to the 90 minute spew just to get my free 4 day, 3 night stay in Vancouver or Victoria, Canada. I did get a bit 'suckered' into buying the 5000 credit plan they are now offering (but it took 2 hours to break me down). 'Suckered' is I went against my principle that if someone offers a 'deal' good for that night only and you really weren't willing or prepared to blow money on something, you should not do it. It's a bad move (especially if the price is as costly as a used car). I wasn't prepared for what 'Treadwest' actually was.

Fortunately, I was sick the next day and did a lot of research over the company, opinions, lawsuits, etc over Trendwest on the web, then I read through the big fat book. I concluded that:

1. I will only enjoy the Trendwest properties with my girlfriend or wife, which I have neither (and if I do acquire a wife she can get us on a future deal)

2. I would be planning my vacation/adventure around my lodging, which is oppositte of all the travels I have done all over the world (and in my opinion, more fun)

3. A bay area newscast just finished a year-long study of Trendwest that seems to suggest they are overselling their supply at an unsustainable rate, thereby chances of you trying to get in a popular place is slim-and-none:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=7on_your_side&id=5074783
This has led to people actually selling their ownership of timeshares at a loss because of this frustration. Thus, people need to be extremely flexible and have about 5 alternatives in mind for a destination.

4. You can actually buy these timeshare ownerships at a severe discount to what Trendwest offers through second-source place (here is one of them): http://www.vacationcredits.com/

5. Trendwest has competition now so I think people can afford to wait and find the best deal for themselves

6. I wasn't too thrilled with the lawsuit I found that California slapped on Trendwest in 2003 for their 'unreasonable' contracts you are forced to sign: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2003/10/27/daily44.html
I am sure they have changed some of their contract wording but...
There was also some noise I found on the company as far away as Australia.

All that said, Trendwest (here in Vancouver, Washington) was very professional with handling my cancelation. I personally cancelled it less than 24 hours after I signed up and they gave me no hassles. I did this professioally by requesting to talk to an agent (a hot agent, no less) in private to prevent my conversation to be overheard. Note though this was strategic on my part because they were about ready to have another 90 minute session with potential buyers so if they were going to hassle me I was going to make sure the whole building overheard me, including all the skeletons I would have whipped out for people to see.

Wise actions, indeed.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Not worth a headache

2007-01-15T10:18:00.000+11:00

A reader left this comment on the blog:

I had a similar experience but instead; when my husband & I declined to purchase they sent us to a second table & yet another sales person attempting to sale us a shorter less expensive package.

I was so tired & I had an excruciating headache that we just agreed to purchase. After which we tried to cancel & had such a horrible time with that company & would advise anyone that asks about it to turn the other way!!!

Hopefully you managed to cancel in time!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

A "Trendwest Hater"

2006-11-03T22:12:00.000+11:00

I got this message from a reader:

To Fabbo and Captain Jack,

I Just want to write and express that I was suckered too and I hate the whole Trendwest Company.

They bind you in a contract for life I am currently trying to fight them and not pay. I do not know what to do.

I just want out from them. This is so fustrating that I dont know where to start. If you have any advice I would appreciate it.

I have not used one service of theirs with California's housing market, this is becoming such a burden.

Please help

trendwest hater

Well, probably the best thing you can try now is to sell your Worldmark Units to Redseason or similar, and cut your losses. If you used finance to buy, then you may still end up owing money. But, that's the price to pay for not doing fair research, or using a cooling-off period.

And, hey, if you feel vindictive, you can always go to a local newspaper and tell them your story. At least it might stop other people from dong the same thing.

Good luck!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Slings & Arrows

2006-08-27T08:40:00.000+10:00

Received via e-mail...

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 17:44:50 +1000 (EST)
Subject: TrendWest sales person abuse, slang and make fun of customers attending the sales presentation
To: customerservices@trendwest.com.au, member@rciap.com,
reservations@wmsp.com.au, ownereducation@wmsp.com.au,
exchanges@interval.com.au, owner.enhancements@trendwest.com.au,
friendsfirst@wmsp.com.au, editor@wmsp.com.au, travelclub@wmsp.com.au,
ownersupport@worldmarktheclub.com, Lisa.Burby@wyndhamvo.com,
Michele.Plant@wyndhamvo.com, moreinfo@trendwest.com

We have been contacted many times by telephone by your staff offering FREE gift if we attend a presentation at the TrendWest office at Parramata, Sydney,Australia.

We accepted the offer and attend the presentation lunch time (12:00), today (26-August-2007) at your Parramatta, Australia office.

The consultant who was assigned to us, his name I think Phil (he is from England, he showed his credentials as degree in England, Financial Planning in England, start working with TrendWest from 2005)/

Once he knew that we did not find value in your product offering then he started to abuse, slang and make fun of us and try to make us look small.
Is this is some kind of pressure selling technique?
At the end this was a very unpleasant event for my wife and my self.

I did not call you guys, you guys called us many times and offered the FREE gift if we attend the presentation. Why make abuse ,slang and make fun of people when they do not see value in your product and offering ?

Please note that we will make sure that all of my friends & relations know about the way you guys treat people when they do not purchase your product/offering.
This will be on many BLOGS on the internet.

One final note, please tell the sales guy who was dealing with us to treat people with normal decency.

Looks like this person copied every e-mail address he could imagine, including RCIAP -- which I don't believe has anything to do with Trendwest!

It's also worth pointing out that these are TRENDWEST sales meetings, which don't necessarily reflect the quality of the Worldmark properties. Indeed, Worldmark ownership is well worth the price you can pay on eBay or redseason.com.au -- which is much better value than buying from Trendwest direct. Mind you, you won't get a free gift that way! :)

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Doing the math, it just doesn't add up!

2006-05-02T11:30:00.000+10:00

Sometimes a bit of logic goes a long way...

Having just had a (non-Worldmark) holiday on the Gold Coast, I thought I'd see what Worldmark would have to offer up there.

I had driven through Kirra Beach, so I had a look at the Kirra Beach Resort online.

One week in a 2-bedroom apartment requires 7000-11000 points depending upon season. Based on prices at Redseason, a 2nd-hand 7000 point membership would cost around $7500 and the annual levies would be $399.

The cost of financing a $7500 membership would be roughly $500 per year, which means a yearly cost of $900. For this, you would get one week at Kirra Beach in low season.

So what is it worth? I Worldmark Kirra Beach on Wotif listing as $250/night normal price, but sometimes available for only $109/night. That makes $1750/week full price, or $763 at Wotif discount prices.

I also found hotel.com.au offering a discount of $140 ($980/wk) and normal price of $188 ($1316/wk). However, it can often be difficult to get these discounts.

Comparing to other accommodation on the Gold Coast such as Currumbin Sands, a low-season price of $950 seems about right.

Then, to top it off, I found an eBay listing #6621249958 where somebody was offering one week at any Worldmark Resort. It appears that they had 12,000 points that were about to expire. The auction ended with a bid of $910.

So, a rough estimate is that a week in low season is worth around $950, which is the approximate cost of holding a 7500-point membership if purchased 2nd-hand.

A week in high season requires 50% more points, but would probably not be available at a discount via websites, which comes out to about the same value. (In fact, I'm surprised that Wotif and hotel.com.au are offering accommodation, since Worldmark resorts are meant to be for members only!)

Thus, the conclusion is that the going price for 2nd-hand memberships is "about right".

The price for new memberships from Trendwest at $2.14/point would be $15,000 for 7000 points. Clearly not good value.

Caveat Emptor.

-- Fabbo.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

A similar experience

2006-05-02T11:26:00.000+10:00

I stumbled across a blog entry from Ieuan's World that tells of another Trendwest sales experience.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Premier or Standard?

2006-05-02T10:11:00.000+10:00

I saw somebody selling their Worldmark membership online, and they highlighted that it is a Premier membership "with exactly the same ownership rights as packages purchased directly from Trendwest".

I had to smile at this, because it reminded me of when I attended the Trendwest sales presentation. The salesperson explained that the Premier membership would only be available if purchased today, which would include things like the exchange club membership ad Bonus Time.

I have even found a reference on Samantha Madell's blog that explains why the prospectus says "Premier Owner Holiday Credits are only available for subscription by invitation on the day of attending a presentation".

The reason I smiled was that I asked the salesperson what proportion of people buy the Standard membersip, and he said -- "We haven't sold any, because nobody ever comes back".

I think that just proves that Trendwest's price markup of 100%+ on Worldmark memberships just aren't worthwhile.

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Hong Kong & Asia

2006-05-01T12:04:00.000+10:00

I recently received this question from a reader:

I'm trying to find out if I can use my Trendwest credits in Hong Kong (also want to take the kids to Hong Kong Disneyland). I can't seem to find any associated resorts/affiliate hotels. Any tips?

Since I'm not a Worlmark member, I sent the question through to Terry from Redseason since I think he knows everything on this topic.

Terry obliged with this reply:

Currently the holiday options in Hong Kong are fairly limited as their doesn't appear to be any significant timeshare of any type in Hong Kong itself. There are a few resorts in mainland China that are within a reasonable distance of Hong Kong that are on the RCI exchange listing. There are two resorts listed at Shenzhen which is about 25km from Hong Kong and another resort at Songgang which is a bit further away.

Of course if they were heading to Disneyland in California or Disneyworld in Florida there are a whole lot of options available - Trendwest has resorts in both locations and there are literally dozens of resorts available through RCI in both places as well. My brother recently visited Florida and was able to get two weeks in resorts in Florida for a total of 6000 credits (3000 per week) using the RCI short-notice exchange option.

Although it hasn't been officially confirmed yet there are strong rumours that Trendwest will be starting up an Asian club later this year. Currently I don't have any more information on where the resorts are to be located or even what the arrangments will be between the new club and the two existing clubs (USA and South Pacific) but I assume there will be sharing of resorts between the new club so that will open up more options in Asia without Trendwest owners having to use an exchange company such as RCI. As soon as I get any more information on this new club it will be announced in our newsletter and posted on our website.

Thanks for that info, Terry. I guess if you live in Hong Kong, your holiday choices are either mainland China or "overseas", so the exchange companies would no doubt play a role.

My personal contacts also reveal that Hong Kong Disneyland is pretty busy at the moment, with all the pent-up demand after its opening. It also has fewer attractions than the other Disney locations. I'd also highly recommend Tokyo Disneyland -- it has easy transport off a train line and is a little 'out of town' so you might be able to get some cheaper accommodation. And, boy, those Japanese sure know their Disney songs!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

RCI Family & Friends

2006-04-14T13:42:00.000+10:00

I received this message from a reader:

Hi, I found your blog on trendwest... and had a quick question about your post on RCI Family and friends...

I don't really understand how to use it - most stuff i find on that website just says to call thier consultants... i was hoping to be able to see some deals online .... to have some kind of idea what deals i can get...

Any more info you can provide on this site would be good, thanks :)

Andrew

Well, the time that I booked through them for a week in Noosa at around $550, I rang their call centre and got details over the phone. I later found that this exactly matched the information available online. To access the availability listings:

Go to Family & Friends
Select 'Resort Stays'
Click the 'Availability' tab
Make your selections: Month, region, unit size, resort/fixed week

You'll then see a list of available weeks with their prices. I did did a quick trial and found some for Nov-06 but not Jan-07. Remember -- you're most likely to get availability out of school holidays!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Same tactics, but some clever thinking...

2006-04-14T07:21:00.000+10:00

I just received this from a reader...

Hi Fabbo,

attended a Trendwest presentation last night and they were very slick, but the exact sales pressure tactics you mention. We had never heard of them before so we were quite tempted, but the "buy tonight" really set off alarm bells.

One of the key questions I asked was how they valued the credit points (currently $2.14). In my opinion, a fair valuation would be the total value of all the resorts/assets divided by the number of credit points issued (ie if the company goes bust and liquidates, how much money would I get back for each credit point a.k.a. equity per share)

Being financially minded, I wanted to get information on how the tax office views this:
Can I buy this through a personal company, family trust etc.
Am I liable for capital gains tax (it is a managed investment trust after all...)
If so can I claim the yearly fees (body corporate) as a tax deduction?
Obviously they couldn't answer any of that.

In the end, we didn't end up buying simply because it was so uncomfortable. We were talked to by 2 managers (one was a "finance manager" who didn't tell us anything about the financials of the company) and felt very pressured. When we asked the tough questions, we got derisive snorts and rhetorical questions implying that they were stupid questions. In the end, both turned nasty and said that the product was clearly not for us and that we should just pick up our free gift and leave.

Which is a real shame because I love the concept. If a product is good, it will sell itself. People will extol it on the internet. By making it into a product and pouring money into the marketing, they have effectively diluted the cost-saving and made it into any other resort company on the market. For example, if you join via ACAP Rotary, Trendwest pays them $1000!!!

Anyway, thanks for your interesting blog. Here are a few interesting articles on a quick google, which you probably have already seen:
Submission on the Parliamentary Joint Committee Inquiry into regulation of the timeshare industry (PDF) [very dodgy!]
Trendwest Resorts Austrailia - Timeshare - subjected to rude, high-pressure marketing experience
Trendwest Will Pay Restitution to Consumers and $795,000 in Civil Penalties [US complaints]
Timeshare seller provides undertakings to the Federal Court [closer to home]

Thanks for the links! I especially like the last one, which says:

Trendwest has undertaken to ... not make the following representations to consumers:
the purchase of Holiday Credits is a good financial investment;
over time, the resale price of Holiday Credits in a secondary market will remain stable or increase relative to their acquisition price;
a strong market exists for the secondary sale of Holiday Credits; and
consumers may sell Holiday Credits through Century 21 Real Estate in Australia.

As to how they value the $2.14 (which fairly recently was $2.08, then $2.10), I think they increase it whenever they want more money. It's certainly not related to any calculation of underlying value.

I love the idea of handling it via a capital gains tax -- you'd be able to claim a very large deduction as soon as you buy it, since the units are only worth around $1! (Of course, you could just avoid the loss in total by buying it on eBay or via redseason.com.au!)

Thanks,

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Insider Stories

2006-03-14T11:57:00.000+11:00

I received this from a reader some time ago (sorry for the delay!) and thought it worth posting:

I have worked in timeshare sales for a few companies down under and have been a timeshare owner for around 15 years and have served on the boards of a number of resorts.

The average person knows little about the timeshare market. Little facts like more than 50% of the cost of buying a share from the developer goes to paying the sales staff or that timeshare is covered by the Managed Investments Act so companies reselling timeshare have to be licensed securities dealers go unnoticed so the crooks can get away with murder.

You might not know that ACCOR pays up to 17% commission direct to the sales staff from each week sold. Trendwest operate on a similar basis, although they wouldn’t hire me because I knew too much about the product.

Yep, that explains the price differential for the resale market on eBay!

Thanks for your tips!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

A self-confessed sucker

2006-02-23T19:49:00.000+11:00

Just got this from a reader...

Dear Fabbo & Captain Jack,

Please help me!!! I wish to sell my Worldmark (Trendwest) South Pacific memberships. I have not used it at all as I have discovered I am not in need of it. I have been holding them for 5 years not knowing how to get rid of them. Can you please guide me where or how I can sell them?

In total, I have 6000 annual credits which I bought @ $12,000. I am happy to sell it to anyone at a reasonable price who would have better used of it.

Thanking you guys in advance.

Chris

PS. I luv your website. I have found some stories comforting as I discovered I am not the only sucker. I just wish your website was around when I was buying them.

Well, all I can suggest aside from eBay is that you try the folks at redseason.com.au. Aim for $1/unit and you won't be disappointed.

An alternative is to try and rent your annual points to bring in cash to pay for annual fees & finance. I think you can also try and sell your holding to existing Worldmark owners via their online site, but I'm not a member so I'm not sure about that.

Readers are welcome to write to me and I'll put them in contact with Chris.

Good luck!

-- Fabbo.
Tags: trendwest worldmark

RCI Family & Friends

2005-11-27T19:53:00.000+11:00

Hey folks,

Well, you've probably noticed my fellow Captain Jack by now. He'll give you insight as a Worldmark Unit Holder.

On the other hand, I remain blissfully a non-member and just returned from my RCI holiday mentioned earlier. In case you didn't know, RCI is owned by Cendant, which also owns Trendwest. RCI mostly caters for points exchanges between Timeshare organisations.

In my case, I used their Family & Friends membership (which is free!) to get a cheap deal. It appears that RCI gets whole-week bookings at various Breakfree resorts around Australia, and they're happy to on-sell them to RCI Family & Friends members up to 10 months in advance.

This, in my opinion, reduces the value of actually having a timeshare membership since you can "buy into it" whenever you wish. In fact, you can probably get a holiday for the same price as your annual timeshare maintenance payment -- without having the up-front investment! Now I've just got to see what cruises they have...

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

"Destinations" - December edition

2005-11-27T09:29:00.000+11:00

Check out "A Letter from the President" on Page 5. There's some interesting insight as to the "new direction" (koff, koff) that Trendwest seems to want to be headed.

If there were some current criticisms of Trendwest, they would be, in order:
1. How tough it is to get bonus time (what? You've actually gotten bonus time?? Not us! Not in 5 years!) Unless, of course, you don't work weekdays.
2. How tough it is to get as good of a booking from the WEBSITE as it is from a LIVE PERSON.
3. How long you have to wait on hold to get a LIVE PERSON.
4. How much they've been raising the rates -- let's see, they've raised quarterly dues...they've raised the amount of money per credit...they've raised the housekeeping fees, and now this month, in "Destinations," they've announced an increase in bonus time overnite fees.

See a pattern here? Less customer service for more money.

Exit former President Gene Hensley, the guy considered to be largely responsible for the information mismanagement of Trendwest. Now, there's a new President of the Worldmark Board of Directors, Dave Herrick.

First impressions: He's written a column on page 7 of "Destinations." He's definitely living in reality, and he knows exactly what the problems are, so we're off to a good start. He seems genuinely concerned about how many customers they've lost. (And paying close attention to the competition coming up on their tail as a result of that, no doubt.)

He's got a list of items he's focusing on in 2006.

#1. "Working with our partners in the Information Technology (IT) department to fine-tune the new operating systems that launched earlier in 2005."

Now he's scaring me -- Dave, Microsoft does the operating systems. You run application software, namely, software that runs bookings and management for resorts. You really should get downstairs and have the guys explain this to you. He says "we . . . are 100 percent focused on working with IT to resolve these issues." What does "fixing" mean? Does "fixing" mean more hassles and cost than we're absorbing now? I'd sure like some more detail on what this means.

#2. "Continuing to identify opportunities to enhance service levels for our owners." Is he paying more money to fulfill this vision, or does he have a way to do it with what he's got now? Which brings us to...

#3. "Keeping costs to a minimum on an ongoing basis." How are you going to fix the software and increase customer service without raising rates? Because "to a minimum" sure doesn't sound like an assurance to me as an owner that there aren't going to be any price increases. Is "minimum" a different "minimum" than we have now? Are we at it, or is the "minimum" bar going down?

One possible conflict I see with the new President is that I think if you put it to a vote of the owners, we would MUCH rather see costs be brought under control before new resorts come online. A new resort just means more deficit!

It's up to us as owners to make it known that we want the same or better service before we get another price increase, so be sure to mention that next time you call a Trendwest rep!

Greetings!

2005-11-27T09:19:00.000+11:00

Hello everyone, I'm Captain Jack and I'm Fabbo's new Trendwest Watch sidekick. I've been a mostly-happy Trendwest customer (oops, "owner") for the last five years with my wife and four children.

For those who are married to Trendwest as we are (paid those quarterly dues yet? ), I'll be deconstructing life in the vacation mecca.

Some reasons we opted for Trendwest: we are middle-class working parents, both working on advanced degrees, we have more time than money, and in our neck of the woods, being a vacation property owner stinks. And a large family in a cramped hotel (sometimes at 25% room tax rate) does not a happy vacation make. Plus, being able to control the food costs with condo life saves a lot of time and frustration.

Mucho thanks to Fabbo for diving into the Trendwest blog world. I hope you'll enjoy the posts as much as I do writing them. Unless something is just a minor article or tidbit, I will generally leave the comments turned on.

Please make the blog a better place by sharing your experiences with Trendwest, and particularly, the traps as well as the tricks you've learned.

To contact me, I'm trendwest@hotmail.com and Fabbo is still trendwestwatch@gmail.com. We'd sure appreciate hearing from you!

Thanks!
Captain Jack
World Traveler (sort of)

Comments from a Reader

2005-10-28T17:38:00.000+10:00

I received this from a reader of the blog:

I stumbled across your site and wanted to mention that I bought a 6000 credit vacation pkg. which I use with my family. So far it has actually worked out well for us. (we bought 2 years ago) I did run into the same sales tactics though. I wish I would have said no the first night and looked online. I could have bought the same credits for half as much. The nice thing is though that when we go to add more credits we know where to get them. Good job letting people know that they can say no, get the free gifts and if they really are interested in the vacation ownership (WHICH REALLY IS GREAT!!!) they can get it cheap online.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Cheap holidays without timesharing

2005-09-02T10:00:00.000+10:00

Okay, it has been a long time since my last Blog post because I'm no longer that excited in Trendwest.

Sales continue to occur on eBay at around A$1/unit and some people still have fantasies that they can get people to pay out their over-financed unitholdings.

The reality is, there's other ways to get cheap holidays, such as finding existing Worldmark unitholders and having them "rent" some accomodation to you. They'd probably be happy to receive some income to offset the annual maintenance costs!

In my case, somebody referred me to RCI Family and Friends. RCI are the people who do holiday swaps between timeshare programs, allow (for example) Worldmark South Pacific owners to go on cruises or holiday in other parts of the world.

I didn't know what Family and Friends was, but I joined since it was free. It appears that they mostly resell Breakfree accommodation in Australia. I then went to book a holiday in Queensland and found that RCI charged half the price of purchasing from Breakfree directly. I got a week of accommodation in November at $549 compared to $1149 direct from Breakfree.

So, it seems that RCI uses its buying power to get cheap accommodation and is happy to also make it available to free "Family and Friends" members.

I'm happy, and I'd highly recommend people to join -- and you can get some of the benefits of timeshare without the upfront cost!

Have you heard of other great offers? Let me know!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Australia's first eBay WorldMark rental

2005-05-27T07:57:00.000+10:00

Aha! I knew it would happen eventually!

eBay auction #6535349219 is the 'sale' of a 'rental' at Kirra Beach during July.

It woould appear that the seller had a booking in Queensland that they no longer want, so they're selling the rights to that week. At an opening bid of $400 for 7 nights, this is good value for 'resort' accommodation, especially if it's during school holidays.

Let's see what happens!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

APVC is yet another WorldMark

2005-05-23T20:50:00.000+10:00

Hi Gang,

I got an Accor Premiere Vacation Club offer in the mail. Much the same as WorldMark, right down to getting a DVD player for attending the information session. Interestingly, I couldn't find trace of a second-hand market for memberships. Looks like it could be an even bigger mistake than buying WorldMark for full price (unless all the members love it so much that they don't sell!).

Lots of eBay action on WorldMark South Pacific memberships lately, but not much will sell...

eBay auction #6534449188 - 12,000 units for $10,320 plus 6000 available

eBay auction #6534659862 - 12,000 units for $16,250 plus 37,500 available
(Gee, they mustn't have used it for years!)

eBay auction #6534402592 - 6000 units for $7500 (take over loan)

eBay auction #6533816107 - 6000 units SOLD for $6,605 with 9,350 available (a bit of sniping at the end of that auction!)

Anyway, who needs a holiday now that there's Sudoku every day in the paper! :)

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Ah! It looked too good to be true

2005-05-09T21:18:00.000+10:00

I stumbled across eBay auction #6530998280 with a WMSP membership going for A$499. That looked too good to be true!

Alas, it was. In reading the fine print (on www.joinbig.com/shares), it appears that this payment only entitles the auction winner to take over $10,000+ in payments owing to Trendwest. Certainly no bargain there!

Then I found auction #5579171095 trying to sell 3000 credits at the full price of A$2.08/unit. Not only a silly price to pay, but I don't think you can own less than 6000 units!

The local redseason.com.au looks like it's going OK. Auction #6530588359 has a bid, and there are already two that successfully sold previously.

And, to round it out, #6529723978 has also got bids at $7,000.

Good going!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Free exchange companies?

2005-04-27T08:45:00.000+10:00

In posting an anonymous comment, a reader mentioned:

So bottom line you can join some free exchange places and grab a bonus week for next to nothing, bonus nights with Trendwest for $60 night, pay exchange costs and hope for a flexchange with Interval and you will have a bargain. But it is hard work unless like me you enjoy it!

I'm intrigued! Do you have any examples of "free exchange places"? I'd love to hear more about what you've discovered!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Royale Timeshare

2005-04-27T08:37:00.000+10:00

A reader passed along a link to Royale Timeshare which lists all sorts of timeshares for re-sale.

After looking at their stocklist, it becomes pretty obvious that WorldMark is a better alternative than traditional timeshares that have fixed weeks for holidays at fixed resorts.

Why anyone buy into such a property is a mystery to me.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Local WMSP Owners Club

2005-04-26T19:32:00.000+10:00

An online user group for WorldMark South Pacific owners has been created on Yahoo and is accessible at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WMSP.

It has been started by Jim Kellog, a local WMSP unitholder who, according to his e-mail signature, has visited the following countries:

Austria
Canada
Channel Islands
Czech Republic
England
Germany
Hong Kong x3
Japan
Kenya
Mexico x5+
Netherlands
New Zealand x3
Norfolk Island
Philippines
Poland
Tahiti
Taiwan
USA-Hawaii x3
USA-Mainland x10+ (40+ states)
Vanuatu

If this means that Jim has visited a WorldMark (or partner) resort in each of these locations, then he has had 40+ holidays. All that with only 20,000 credits per year seems pretty remarkable. Perhaps you'd like to comment, Jim?

Anyway, the WMSP group on Yahoo is yet another place to discuss WorldMark and share information amongst members. For example, Jim points out that maintenance fees increased 3% last year and housekeeping fees 15%. It's good to have somebody policing such information!

I also note that Jim has an eBay auction for 1000 credits with a starting price of $80. These credits can be transferred to another WorldMark South Pacific owner to "top-up" their points balance (unlike 'renting' which is a way of selling time to non-unitholders).

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Congratulations Ronnie and Mouse!

2005-04-25T13:55:00.000+10:00

Congratulations to eBay user ronnieandmouse who successfully sold 6000 units on eBay auction #6526404742 for $6,200. The seller is paying the transfer fee.

Bidding was short and sweet, with xtraspesch placing a bid of $6,100 only 45 minutes before the end of the 7-day auction, which was outbid by joma5461 with less than 5 minutes of the auction remaining!

This emphasises that the second-hand market for WorldMark South Pacific only seems to be worth $1/unit. Perhaps this will improve as more people understand the concept.

Meanwhile, I've received this query from a reader:

Anyone know if you can buy a small amount of points and then as a member convert red weeks from other timeshares to Trendwest credits? I am trying to find out and will post what I find... kras7

It sounds like they want to do a bit of trickery to gain an advantage. I don't understand the details, but post a comment if you can help!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Straight on the money

2005-04-19T12:30:00.000+10:00

Straight and simple -- eBay auction #6526404742 has 6000 credits going for $6,000 with 12,000 available credits, and they'll even pay the $200 transfer fee.

I wrote to the seller and asked them why they are selling. They said:

I have no experience of Trendwest/WorldMark we are always unable to commite to dates due to work,which is why we are selling the membership.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

What to ask Trendwest

2005-04-19T12:27:00.000+10:00

I received this e-mail from a reader:

i just received one of those very friendly phonecalls from Trendwest this morning and i doubt i'll be attending thursday night's 'presentation' after all the things i've been reading up about Trendwest. As much as it wouldve been nice to 'win' a holiday, maybe i wasnt really winning anything at all. Just a question - do i still need to attend their presentation if i choose the stereo system instead of a holiday. :o) ?

Yes, you have to attend the 90-minute session to get the free gift. The gift can be chosen from a DVD player, stereo or holiday -- however, there are "administration fees" attached to the holiday and decisions about where/when to go. I normally suggest taking the "known" against the "unknown".

My recommendation is to attend the session (given enough time) and be open and honest about asking them questions.

Get their assistance in calculating the "value" of the holiday and see if it all adds up to the value they are offering -- then let me know how it went!

If you want, you can save two questions until the very end:

How does Trendwest assist owners in selling their units?
Why are there regular listings on eBay for $1.00 to $1.20/unit, compared to $2.08 to purchase direct from Trendwest?

That last one should get some panic going!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Australian re-sales service

2005-04-18T08:22:00.000+10:00

Some of you might recall my monitoring of an eBay auction by tlcbusconsult, who seemed to be buying AND selling credits.

I've since received the following information from them:

Hi Fabbo,

You emailed me a while ago regarding my ebay ad for Trendwest memberships - as I mentioned at the time I was working on a business deal and I can now let you in on the details. I am now the official Australian agent for Redseason.com and we will be launching our Australian website in the next week or so but it is already up on the web so you can have a sneak preview. The web address is www.redseason.com.au

Redseason.com is the leading reseller of Trendwest packages in America due to their great service and focus on customer satisfaction (for both buyers and sellers) and we aim to bring the same high level of service to the Australian resale market with our new site. Some of the advantages of buying a membership through us include:

All memberships are Premier memberships and our pricing is fully inclusive of all transfer fees, etc.
All memberships are guaranteed to be fully paid for and the levies are paid in full up to the current quarter.
We offer a risk-free (and hastle-free) transfer process which means you don't have to pay anything until you are satisfied the membership is ready to transfer.
We have an excellent working relationship with the transfer department at Trendwest which means we can help you through the sale process.
All our staff are Worldmark or Worldmark South Pacific owners so we KNOW the answers to any questions you may have.
Our motto is "We will do whatever it takes to make sure you are 100% comfortable." Making sure the buyer is happy and comfortable during all stages of the buying process is our number one goal so we are always happy to answer any questions a buyer (or prospective buyer) may have.

Personally I am a very happy owner of a Worldmark South Pacific membership and have had great holidays in Fiji and Kirra Beach (Gold Coast) whilst my brother has taken advantage of my membership for a holiday at the Cairns resort and he was also extremely happy with his holiday. When I have some more time I will send you my own analysis of the value of a Trendwest membership as compared to renting holiday accommodation in the normal way.

Please have a look at the website and let me know what you think. If you have any questions at all please email or call me. I am happy for you to post a copy of this email on your website.

Regards,

Terry Bradford

Redseason.com.au

terry@redseason.com.au

Phone: 0412 837792

Well, it's good to see more opportunities for local unitholders to sell their holding. As always, every buyer & seller should carefully look into the price & conditions of the sale.

One definite advantage of having an agent is that they know all the details -- they can ensure that credits and points are appropriately transferred and will, no doubt, ensure that payment is properly transferred between parties. The downside? Okay, they'll take a percentage but that's the cost of business. There's always eBay if their value does not justify their fees.

I notice that Terry has already put a listing on eBay (#6526031970) with 6000 credits going for a $7,200 opening bid. That's $1.20/unit and they even pay the $200 transfer fee. That looks like a reasonable market price, especially given the value of an experienced agent.

More interesting, the information on his website explains that they purchase points up-front for a stated price. This is much better than an auction because you know what you're getting and there's no waiting. However, be prepared for them to take a "margin" out of that price -- that's their income! (Plus, if they're lucky, they can get a bidding war on eBay and earn even more.)

Oh, and I notice that their eBay ID has changed from tlcbusconsult to redseason_com_au.

All in all, it's a positive step for both buyers and sellers. Good luck, Terry!

-- Fabbo

(Disclaimer: I've got nothing to do with Terry or Redseason. I only just found out his name from that e-mail!)

Tags: trendwest worldmark

A question on transferring points

2005-04-14T20:45:00.000+10:00

This came in from a reader:

Fabbo
Still following your interesting site.

I have one question which is quite important. From my reading of the
PDS, premier points are only available at a presentation. What happens
to points purchased from ebay (or other) and transferred? Do they remain
premier points (even though not obtained at a presentation) or are they
converted to standard? It appears that trendwest have final approval on
this. I can see that if you already own units and purchase more from
ebay then they would probably retain premier status, but what happens if
your first purchases are from ebay??? What experience have people had on
purchases?

Thanks

Glynn

That made me laugh a bit. I learned on my Information Evening that nobody apparently ever buys Standard points. Either they buy on the night, or they're never seen again!

Anyway, my understanding is that preimier points remain as premier points. Be aware that transfers can only happen to other WorldMark unitholders. Giving points to non-unitholders is "renting" and doesn't involve WorldMark. So, I guess as long as the transferer and transferee are both Premier Owners, the points would remain as such.

The fact that Trendwest has final say probably means that they'd block transfers in strange situations where somebody appears to be taking advantage of the system, or where it is causing a disadvantage to Trendwest themselves. My advice -- keep a low profile!

Does anybody else have some advice or experience on this topic? If so, hit the comment link below!

-- Fabbo.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Another "information evening" story

2005-04-14T20:40:00.000+10:00

This story was left by a reader in the comments section, but I'm repeating it here for people reading via newsfeeds...

I just got back from a TrendWest presentation in SLC, UT USA. It seems that the owner of this blog is in Australia but neverless, the presentation sounded almost identical. The only difference is that instead of using ICE for international travel we would use a company called RCI.

In my case TrendWest acquired my information by holding a $50,000 sweepstakes that I entered into at a professional sports event. They called me twice to 'verify my sweepstakes entrance information.' These calls were turned out to be qualifying questions to be sure that I was who I said I was and to qualify my purchasing power. They then called a third time and informed me that I hadn't won the $50,000 prize but I had won a 'mini-vaction' and all I needed to do was come down to their offices and pick it up! Then they proceeded to tell me that I would also need to sit through a 90 minute presentation... Ah ha! The catch!

After I finally figured out that I hadn't really won anything and this was just another timeshare scheme to get people in the door I almost cancelled, but I thought 'heck, I'll give it a try.' Huge mistake!

When I arrived at the office I was sat down in a waiting room with other supposed 'winners' and waited to be let into the presentation room. We then watched a short movie about Cendant and TrendWest followed by introductions to our sales reps. This part was very interesting because I noticed that the women reps all were assigned to men that were there by themselves, which didn't really seem too odd until the flirting began. These women were pros! They would softly touch my arm or shoulder any opportunity they could and also tell me how 'sweet' I was. Very weird... The rep proceeded to explain in very convincing detail how I would be saving thousands of dollars over hotel prices and how I would have 'ownership' in the property. Immediately I started drawing parallels of this presentation with the traditional high-pressure car sale, complete with scribblings on the offer sheet and the ultimate closer - 'getting the manager.'

By this time I was totally annoyed. Both the sales rep and manager tried and tried to convince me that this was an investment but how could it be? I know for a fact that timeshare's don't resell for more than their original price and they are also income draining investments due to the maintainance fees. The question that I kept asking is 'how did you come up with this price($20,600)?' It was rediculous, they had no answer... My argument was that the price was too high and there was no real value to it because you never really own it, at least not like you would true real estate. The manager got visibly agitated because I wasn't buying the sales pitch and began to feverishly defend the value being quoted and tried to bait and switch me to a lesser plan because in his words I 'obviously couldn't afford the premium plan.' Bizarre! I never said anything about not being able to afford it, I just said I wanted to know how they came up with the price. At one point I said I felt like I was in a car dealership, at which the manager got very upset and defensive, claiming not to be a 'scummy car dealer.' I rolled my eyes to his comment and he demanded that I not roll my eyes at him! I couldn't believe it! He was scolding me like I was a child! At this time the table got very quiet and a staredown ensued. It was very uncomfortable... I thought that I might be in for an actual punch-down drag-out fight. Then he made a comment something like 'just get him his free gift' and immediately left.

The whole experience was sooooo crazy! After the incident with the manager the sales rep tried to get me to refer some friends for her to call and I just laughed. NO WAY! The sales rep was actually fairly friendly and I felt like she was as up front as she could be considering the whole thing is inherently very shady, but the more I think about it the more I realize she was just a small part of the grander deceptive scheme.

Overall I lost any interest in dealing with them directly. I would consider buying a resale TrendWest timeshare but I still don't quite understand how one gets out of it. If there is no time limit does that mean you have to pay the maintainance fee even if you're 100 yrs old and don't holiday anymore?

Regardless, I felt obligated to share my story so that no other innocent people would have to deal with the 'Wrath of the Car Dealer!'

Yes, that's a good question to ask -- how do they come up with the price? While costs would certainly contribute (including sales commissions), it's really a matter of "what the market can bear". A higher price might generate less sales, but the extra money is pure profit! Even though units used to be cheaper (under $1.50), it doesn't mean you're getting anything more for the higher price.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Latest auctions & news

2005-04-14T20:12:00.000+10:00

Hi folks,

I had somebody chat to me over the water fountain the other day, asking me if I knew anything about the Accor Premiere Vacation Club. He had received a written invitation to attend an information seminar, with an offer of hoidays or a DVD player to attend. Looked pretty much like a Trendwest invitation -- same tactics, similar offer.

It still beats me why people pay retail for these things. eBay auction #6525366909 has 6000 credits going for a starting bid of $8000, and "buy it now" of $9000. Not the best, but $1.33 - $1.50 is still better than $2.08!

Two auctions recently ended with successful sales. #6516820409 and #6518673694 both finished close to $1/unit -- congratulations to the purchasers!

I spent some time at the WMOwners website where I asked US WorldMark unitholders whether it would be possible to "rent" some points off owners for use on ICE cruises. I didn't get a definitive answer, but there was some interest. That would be an excellent way to get cheap cruises, and make a WorldMark unitholder happy by purchasing their unused points for a year (effecitvely financing their annual levy for that year).

One thing's for sure -- the WMOwners forum, run by unitholders rather than Trendwest/WorldMark themselves, is a boon for unitholders. It makes things so easy to buy, sell, rent and trade. Using the Internet to create free markets!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Unfortunately misunderstanding

2005-04-04T07:45:00.000+10:00

A while back I made reference to an eBay auction that had the price horribly wrong.

The listing was for:

6000 time share credits at AU$2.10/credit. Trendwest to assist in transfer of ownership

The starting auction price was set at $2.10 -- obviously meaning "price per unit".

However, the bidding then went:

targatours ( 5 )	$5.00
bobd2512 ( 0 )	$6.50
alfewre ( 3 )	$10.00
bobd2512 ( 0 )	$12.50
bobd2512 ( 0 )	$97.50
dino.t ( 24)	$101.05
dino.t ( 24)	$111.05
bobd2512 ( 0 )	$113.55

Quite obviously, this bidding was incorrect and getting out of control -- nobody would pay $113.55/unit of WorldMark!

I wrote to the bidder and here's what they said:

hi!

it seemed like that - most of them thought that i was sellng the whole 6000 credits for $2.10, when it's clearly stated on my ad that it's for a membership with 6000 credits at $2.10/credit.

Just not happy with the service they'd given me. If I were you, if you don't intend to go on holidays every year for life, don't become a member. it is very attractive, but
sometimes things happen and you cannot afford this sort of luxury and it leaves you no option but to withdraw ownership. In my experience, it is not an easy step, since i put the credits on mortgage (if you paid for the total price upfront, no problem).
Because Trendwest does not do resale, it is the responsibility of the member to sell
his/her membership in order to pay out the finance. There's no way that you'd be able to recover the amount outstanding on the loan. You woud be out of pocket like me by approx $1500.

Anyway, to each his own. People have different priorities.

Goodluck on your website

I wonder whether it eventually sold?!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

A good deal now online

2005-04-04T07:37:00.000+10:00

Found this one currently listed on eBay...

6000 units
Opening price $6,000
775 current credits

Interestingly, here are some comments from the seller, geoffrox77, about the resorts and reasons for selling:

Q: Hello What are the Trendwest facilities like? How many have you been to? Does your membership include the European / UK destinations? Have you been a member for long and why are you selling?

A: Hi David, Trendwest has resorts in Australia,Fiji, NZealand,USA,Hawaii.We have stayed in Cairns (Nth Qld), Golden Beach (Sunshine Coast,Qld) & Kirra Beach (Gold Coast,Qld) The resorts have been lovely.

We've had family & overseas visitors with us on several occasions & all have been suitably impressed. We had the opport of a London visit as well. This was organised thru Interval International which links our membership to resorts throughtout the world. To be a member of Interval Internation the cost is $95.00/year, $209.00/3 years, or $290.00/5 years. Well worth $ spent. For more information on these destinations go to www.intervalworld.com, and look under their Resort Directory. You'll see the variety of countries available.

Apart from this Trendwest now has their own travel club which means you can stay at places that are not owned by Worldmark. They also organise club escapades for day or evening events.

We have been happy members since 2001 & are selling purely for cashflow reasons.

Selling at half-price wouldn't help that Return on Investment!

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Timeshare Resales Australia

2005-04-04T07:25:00.000+10:00

The Timeshare Resales Australia site is a local Australian resource for listing run by Dawn Arnold in Victoria. It is a listing service for various timeshares throughout Australia.

Those interested in WorldMark South Pacific should look under the "Other" listings, where current listings include:

8000 units for $10,500 + 5000 credits (recently sold)
7000 units for $11,500 + 7000 credits
7000 units for $10,000 + 14,250 credits (Wow, they don't use it much, eh?)
7000 units for $10,500 + 7000 credits
7000 units for $12,000 + 7000 credits
6000 units for $10,900
6000 units for $8,400 + 1000 credits (why didn't this sell first?)
6000 units for $9,000 + 9350 credits
6000 units for $9,000 + 1000 credits
6000 units for $8,200 + 8000 credits

That's quite a few listings, but they tend to sit there for a long time whereas eBay auctions only last for up to 10 days.

I tend to think that you could always do a deal with these people to close a transaction quickly! Or, approach them to "rent" some points and they'd probably be happy -- especially if some points are about to expire! E-mail contacts are provided on the site.
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Amazing analysis of Trendwest vs other timeshares

2005-03-31T07:46:00.000+10:00

I received this fantasic analysis from a reader of Trendwest Watch...

Fabbo,

Great site. Thanks for the information.

I've done a bit of research into a number of timeshare companies. My wife and I went to an ACCOR(APVC) presentation 18 months ago and signed up. But after I had a chance to read the PDS we exercised our cooling off rights and withdrew. The main reason was there was no cap in the maintenance or other levies. I note that that has now been changed in their new PDS. We were basically happy with the concept, thought it was a bit expensive but suited us reasonably well. (we've both retired and are flexible in our holidays). I appreciate that it's not an investment but an opportunity to purchase holidays into the future at a reasonably
fixed price.

I recently thought I'd have another look at what was on offer. I liked the Trendwest concept. It had plenty of places to go to and appeared to be fairly open in its presentation of information. Also there appear to be quite a few points for sale, which may or may not be a bad thing. Unlike most of the others where you had to apply on line and have the information sent. APVC hide their PDS at the bottom of their web site.

I've read the PDS for APVC, Interchange, Trendwest, Holiday Concepts and Moorings. The Trendwest is the most forthcoming of all I think. The PDS appears to give some assurances on the maintenance fee and levy increases which Accor Pacific Vacation Club has just included in theirs and none of the others have. One of them has management fees payable to the responsible entity increasing by 10% pa for the next 12 years!

I have some concerns about purchasing on the net as most require the approval of the responsible entity before transfer and it's not clear to me that the status of the points would be retained on transfer. It would appear that APVC and Trendwest may convert premier points to standard on transfer as the PDSs claim that premier/personal are only available at a presentation (ie at a significant profit to them).

I have prepared a spreadsheet outlining my summary of the various features of the clubs. Some of the figures are guesses, as the PDS does not contain sufficient information. The financial information in some is very scanty. One of the interesting things coming out from this is that each unit at the company sale price is covered by less than 25% assets, so you're buying a lot of air. For Trendwest even at the $1/point, which you can buy them at occasionally on the net, you've still only got 50% asset cover.

	Trendwest	Accor	Interchange Vacation Club	Holiday Concepts	Moorings
Points for 1 week high season	10,000	4,000	6,503	8,759	2 floating weeks
$/point	2.08	4.99	3.40	2.28?
Cost	$20,800	$19,990	$22,110		$9,950
Asset Covered by required points	$3,173	$3,833	$4,097	$221	$2,392
# Home Resorts	68 (incl overseas)	10	84	18	1
Smallest Unit of time	Day	Day	Mid week, Weekend	Mid week, Weekend	Week
Annual Reallocation of points by resort	No	?	Yes	Yes	2 weeks floating
Transfer Automatic	No - Requires approval	No - Requires approval	No - Requires approval	Yes	No - Requires approval
Property held in a trust?	Yes	No	No	No. Mostly leases over units	No
Initial Membership			$132
Annual Membership			$179
Annual Maintenance	$475	$525	2.75% of points value charged but depends on resort ($560)	5.8c/point plus $27 + others ~$500	$496
Maintenance Capped	5% or cpi	5% or cpi	No	No	No
Levy Capped	Yes	No	No	No	No
Comments	Properties held by independent trustee	Access to reduced charges for Accor hotels	Quorum for a meeting is 2 members!		Management fee increases by 10% pa until 2017. Managers cannot be removed by members without management consent!

If I have ~$20,000 invested which keeps up with inflation (in, say, a reasonable fully franked share) I could earn $1000/yr. Combine this with $500 maintenance, I have $1500/year, inflation linked, to spend on accommodation anywhere I choose. I figure this will give me holidays for as long as I like and I don't have to worry about how I'm going to get out when I'm finished. These figures obviously change if you purchase the units significantly cheaper than the company offered price, but even at half price I still have $1000/yr for accommodation and no worries or committments. I'm prepared to forgo the other enticements such as bonus weeks etc as these can usually be purchased on the net not much more expensively (ie I can get a week at Moorings for around $500, roughly the same as if I used my points) or using Breakfree / Lastminute / FlightCentre special offers.

In summary I'm not convinced that timeshare is such a great deal, particularly if you purchase at a presentation.

Regards
Glynn

If you'd like to discuss Glynn's analysis, leave a comment below.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

More online WorldMark South Pacific auctions

2005-03-29T19:23:00.000+10:00

Okay, looks like some more action on eBay...

Good Value

Auction #6521892286 has 6000 units available with an opening bid of $6,200 and a "Buy it Now" price of $7,000. There are 9,500 points for immediate use. The seller is 'tjlavelle7'. This one should sell!

Auction #6521293114 has 6000 units relisted for $6,700 and a "Buy it Now" price of $7,500. That's pretty good -- certainly much better than the $8,750 originall requested in auction #6518393106.

Auction #6521129503 has 6000 units for $6,800. Interestingly, this was listed by tlcbusconsult who tried buying 6000 units recently for $6,200.

Auction #6521260748 has 8000 units relistsed for $9,250 -- the same price as before. Interestly, seller 1667david also unsuccessfully tried selling a week at Club Noosa Resort

which doesn't appear to be a WorldMark property.Not Good Value

Auction #6521532601 has 6000 units for $8,700. The seller, amanda8636, doesn't want to go much lower because that's how much is owed. It has 8,600 points available for immediate use.

Auction #6521336782 has 7000 units for $12,000. This is a re-list of auction #6517309668 which didn't sell. The seller, mike_simpson71, hasn't dropped the price. Looks like he's in it for the long-haul!

Hope you all had a happy Easter break!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Iron-clad agreement

2005-03-24T19:47:00.000+11:00

An article from www.newbusinessnews.com highlights some of Trendwest USA's collection tactics, including:

Collection calls at all times of the day and night
Users armed with caller ID are bombarded with relentless calls, re-calls and uninterrupted phone-ringing
A barrage of threatening collection letters
They will also contact your workplace, using the same tactics
Trendwest contends that there is no legal loophole for an un-satisfied customer to escape through
They will persist, even after being put on legal notice (because according to them, there is no legal alternative).

For more details, read the full article.

Tags: trendwest worldmark

A successful eBay sale -- and a keen market valuation

2005-03-24T12:28:00.000+11:00

I previously wrote about eBay auction #6516820409 that was selling for $1/unit. I went back and found that it has sold for $6,301 -- that's $1.05/unit.

Most interesting was the bidding:

Bidder	AU$ Bid	Date
5283dave (0)	$6,000	13-Mar-05 08:06:21 AEDST
tlcbusconsult (26)	$6,201	16-Mar-05 15:50:59 AEDST
havalah2 (123)	$6,301	16-Mar-05 15:50:46 AEDST

Being an eBay fan, here's my analysis:

5283dave put in a bid for only $6000
havalah2 used a Snipe utility (eg ESnipe) to place a maximum bid of $6,201 8 seconds before then end -- using a typical eBay strategy of adding $1 to win a tied bid. This would have pushed the winning bid to $6,100 or thereabouts
tlcbusconsult sniped 5 seconds before the end, but only for a maximum of $6,201 which meant that havalah2's earlier and higher bid won for $6,301

An aside about sniping

It's worth mentioning that sniping is a great way to use eBay. In a sensible world, everybody has a maximum price they're willing to pay, and the person with the highest maximum price wins. However, human nature sends this theory out the window.

In a lot of eBay auctions, people place a bid (eg $10). They then get outbid, so place another bid (eg $20). They keep doing this until they either get top-bid, or run out of budget. Next, person B comes along and does the same. This results in a bidding war which is good for the seller, and the whole reason why auctions work well.

However, enter the Snipe concept. What if the original bidder bid $10 and was the top-bid, with nobody competing. They'd keep their bid there, with no need to increase. Then, a few seconds before the end of the auction, somebody else could come along and bid $15, thereby winning the top-bid and not allowing enough time for the first person to raise their bid. This is the fault of the first person, who should have told eBay their maximum desired bid rather than just bidding enough to win at the moment. If they did so, then they'll either win or the item will sell for more than their budget -- either which should make them happy.

The result is that the Sniper paid less for the win than in an open bidding war. Good for the buyer, not so good for the seller!

Back to the auction

Another interesting fact is that tlcbusconsult was willing to pay $6,201 for the 6000 credits. A bit of searching on eBay reveals that tlcbusconsult is currently trying to sell WorldMark 6000 credits for $7,400 on eBay in auction #6519327885.

Indeed, tlcbusconsult has previously sold 6000 credits for $8,200 on eBay in auction #6510672925. If this person is willing to purchase for $6,200 then it means that the current market for points lies between $6,200 and $7,400 for 6000 credits.

This should give an indication for people wishing to cash-out of their "investment".

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Opinion time: It's a loss-loss situation

2005-03-24T08:38:00.000+11:00

I try not to state an opinion in my posts, preferring to let facts speak for themselves. Nor have I openly stated anything against Trendwest that isn't in the public domain. However, after receiving responses from some readers of Trendwest Watch, I'm starting to form a few "ideas".

Think up-front

I guess I was fortunate in that I have a personal rule to "never sign anything on the night". I did my math during the information session and figured out that 12,000 credits was worth about $2,500/year in accommodation -- but we only ever pay $60 per night when we go travelling anyway!

After the Trendwest information session, I did some searching on the Internet. As I found more bargains on the Internet offering Holiday Credits for $1.80/unit I was getting excited. Then I found they were really only worth about $1/unit and I became less interested. Now that I know I can probably rent credits off existing owners, I'm not very interested in buying at all.

With 23,000 unitholders in South Pacific, WorldMark is obviously good for many people. Reading the WMOwners website in the USA shows that there are many delighted owners. However, the responses I'm receiving suggest that there are some unhappy people and they're not having an easy time getting out of their Trendwest commitments.

If this website helps people avoid some financial mistakes, I'd be delighted.

What do to?

For those WorldMark South Pacific owners wishing to exit, there's one fact --> you've made a loss and there's no way to avoid it. Economists refer to this as a "sunk cost" -- it has been paid and there's no way to get the money back. Rather, it's a matter of how to minimise the loss and get something back.

For example, if somebody paid $12,000 for credits and pays $400/year in maintenance costs, they want to get value for their holiday dollar. You'd want to have accommodation worth $1000/year to make the investment worthwhile -- and many people are doing so.

If, however, the ownership is not worth $1000/year, or you would prefer to have the money than the holiday, it's time to exit.

Current value on eBay suggests only $1/unit, so you'd only get back $6000. Many people look at this and say "but I don't want to make a loss!". Instead, they sit there losing value on their investment each year not enjoying their holiday opportunities. In that case, there are 4 options:

Transfer & sell your annual credits to other WorldMark owners
Rent out your bookings
Sell your WorldMark units
Do nothing

I'm not 100% sure of your ability to transfer & sell your annual credits but I've read something like that on the USA websites. If this is possible, then it should be possible to have Trendwest transfer your current "points" to another Trendwest owner, for which you can have a financial arrangement on the side. You might be able to reach these people via the Trendwest website, or somewhere else on the web.

I've previously written about renting out your bookings, where you effectively sell your annual rights to somebody else. You won't make a fortune, but you will hopefully cover your annual costs. If you can transfer your points to a cruise, then it could be a very worthwhile sale to other people, especially with some of the deals that ICE offer each year.

Trying to sell your units is a matter of supply & demand -- you'll have to make a loss, but it's better than carrying-forward the loss.

Or, there's what most people choose -- do nothing. This is also a loss-making exercise, especially if your current "points" expire. That's money down the drain.

Get radical

If you're really annoyed, I'd suggest two further options:

1. Try to get relief via the ASIC agreement. If you purchased prior to 2003, you might have recourse to complain. Officially, they only had to respond to people within 90 days of initial notice, so that doesn't look too promising.

2. You could picket a Trendwest office. Now, this is radical and I'm not recommending you do it. However, handing out a few leaflets to attendees outside a Trendwest office before or after an information session will at least give you access to a market that understands what Trendwest has to offer. If you offer them a cheaper deal than buying direct from Trendwest, you might get a buyer. However, don't expect to do it more than once -- Trendwest earn their money on new sales and would not be happy with people hijacking their sales process. They're paying a lot of money to have people attend. Mind you, they might be in a frame of mind to assist if you stay legal in your approach. (A large sign on top of your own car, legally parked in front of their building?)

Of course, try talking with Trendwest first and make notes of your conversations. Written notes carry a lot of weight in case of future legal or press situations. It's always best to try civilised approaches first, and never go beyond the law or you'll doubly lose.

If anybody has tried such approaches, let me know!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Unhappy, but at least not in debt

2005-03-24T07:43:00.000+11:00

I received this message from a fan of Trendwest Watch:

Hi there Trendwest Watcher

Your’e a gem. I’ve come across to you by accident as I was typing in the trendwest thing on Google.

Boy do I loathe Trendwest and yes we’re owners, ie my husband and I. The day we're through with them I’m going to open up a bottle of champagne and drink to my freedom. We’re in our 50’s and I still can’t believe that we got caught. They do run a sleek operation and sometimes I feel that we must have been hypnotized that night when we went along to their sleek/smooth/sickly sign up . We bought 6,000 credits in the year of 2000 after we said that there was no way possible we would pay for the full amount. They were so swift and so smooth and the next thing we’re signed up for half of what they had to offer.

Luckily we were in a position to pay it outright and not on the credit card as I suspect a lot of people do, adding another 15% to their total. Anyone who thinks they’re getting a good deal with Trendwest need their head read in my opinion. So many restrictions at our every move and most of their resorts are out of the way. We have just spent time in New Zealand and wow big whoopee, they had just opened up a new resort in Rotarua. So we booked for only a couple of days as we were touring the North Island. We get there and the place is 20mins drive out of Rotarua town centre. Accommodation quite nice but the place felt like a deserted island. Nothing was happening and we couldn’t wait to get out of there through the day. We could have used our $10,000+ on many other Getaway special holidays and we would have been treated like royalty. Don’t even talk to me about the yearly levy of nearly $400 and increasing every year, because my jugular vein will be throbbing. You’re right – they do prey on the people who have travelled and love holidaying as we lived in a mining town for many years in the Northern Territory and holidaying yearly and sometimes twice yearly became compulsory.

Anyway I could go on and on about it but my aim is to warn as many people about Trendwest as I can. Keep up the good work.

Cheers Marion

Wow, that's a pretty firm opinion!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark