Credits keep getting cheaper

I keep an eye on eBay auctions involving Worldmark and I found a rather cheap auction, selling Australian credits for 70c each (compared to the 'official' price of $2.60).

The auction listing took me to Royale Timeshare Resales and they're listing resales as low as 60c/credit.

Why would anybody pay full price?!

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

50+ years ROI on Worldmark

I noticed a recent sale of holiday credits on eBay Australia.

This wasn't a sale of Worldmark ownership credits — it was just a one-off sale of holiday credits for use in booking accommodation. The owner, it would seem, wasn't using the annual allocation, so they wanted to get some money in exchange for giving somebody a holiday or two.

There was quite a bit of bidding over the week, taking the price from an opening $399 to a final $735 (Australian dollars). This is interesting in that it gives an indication of the 'value' of Worldmark ownership. If the person has an annual 12,000 credits then it's worth $735/year.

At a current "purchase from Wyndham" cost of $2.82 per credit, that's 12,000 x $2.82 = $33,840 of up-front cost to get a mere $735 value per year. That means an ROI of 48 years, but that's excluding extras like housekeeping.

Not exactly a stunning investment. I think the person who bought the credits is the smartest -- they got the holiday at a fraction of the Worldmark cost. Good one!

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

Accidents will happen

From a reader...

Don't have an accident on the World Mark properties. I slipped getting out of the shower and dislocated my shoulder. My own insurance covered most of the cost but when I asked if they had any kind of medical benefits like most homeowners have through their insurance I was told no coverage unless I could prove them negligent. GET YOUR OWN ACCIDENT INSURANCE to cover deductibles and copays. Or try the duck.

I think the Worldmark stance is entirely reasonable. If the property owner is negligent, they would be liable. So, it's a matter of showing that they wilfully made the shower slippery.

If, on the other hand, it was an accident that was not exacerbated by their actions, I don't see why they should be liable to cover such costs. Travel Insurance is always a good idea, especially if travelling to a different country.

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

Please do not ask for credit since refusal may offend

From a reader...

We had a reservation for Kona in January, but since our income dropped precipitously could not use the credits. We called on the outside chance that we could change the reservation due to the fact that the credits were old. The employee changed the reservation to next year. We were very happy with them.

We decided to call back and add a week and were told that the reservation should not have been changed and now we had lost both the original reservation and the new reservation, both were confirmed. Now a week later after contacting the board of directors and customer services nothing has been done. Their employee made the mistake and as of December 1st nothing has been done.

I won't be buying anything from them again if they don't fix the mistakes of their employees and I'm likely to sell these credits as soon as they refuse make things right. I would choose any other company before these thieves.

Mmm, while they might have been within their rules to refuse the use of old credits, they should certainly honor the words of their employees. So sad.

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

Helpful advice for happy ownership

Some helpful information posted by '1nceBurned2wiceShy'...

The experience for WM owners seems to be different, or else I was just lucky.

We just returned from our first use of one of our WM timeshares purchased on eBay (soon to be combined to save admin costs). Upon check-in, and having identified ourselves as first-time users, we were invited to attend an "informational presentation" regarding our new ownership. (I thought, "Oh boy, here we go."). Nevertheless, after considering it overnight, we accepted.

To my surprise, it turned out to be just that. I had done some research through the WM website prior to our stay, but they cleared up a number of questions regarding the Exchange Plus program and other questions. We spent two hours with the salesperson that included a tour of the Presidential Suite -- very nice (and tempting to buy more credits -- beware the WOW factor).

Because of the all the time spent with us, we, and especially my wife, felt a little guilty declining their various offers, but their prices were about 6X what we paid for our credits through EBay. Nevetheless, they gave us our AMEX gift card as promised -- no hassle, and no high pressure tactics. We have already planned our return trip to Steamboat Springs, CO next June and then on to Yellowstone, MT.

Do your due diligence and research (this site is a great starting point), buy online from a reputable reseller, have patience during the closing/transfer process, then start enjoying some really extravagant, affordable vacations. Oh, and plan ahead as much as possible -- especially if you want to get into Yellowstone during the busy seasons.

Yes -- buying the points cheaply (definitely no more than $1 per credit) will give a worthwhile Worldmark experience.

-- Fabbo Tags: trendwest worldmark

Confusing Fairfield system

I got this question from a reader that had me confused...

I just attended a sales presentation here in Hawaii by Wyndham - was promised a $50 gift card and $100 credit on my car rental - I got the gift card but so far the rental credit hasn't materialized - if I get burned on that, c'est la vie - not a great loss.  

I didn't agree to buy anything, deciding to do research and that's how I found your site. So far, it seems IF I decide to get anything, it should be on the resale market. 

This is my question - the packages I was offered were in the 104,000 - 1,000,000 points range. For instance, one deal was $28,000 for 156,000 points with fee-simple (deeded) interest in the Bali Hai resort on Kauai. There were, of course, "sweeteners" when I resisted (e.g. double points for two years, etc.), but I didn't sign. 

When I looked at the point fees for the resorts, the cheapest weeks were for 28,000 points up to hundreds of thousands for expensive places. 

Now, in doing my research, it seems like the kind of points people are talking about, on your website and others, and on the resale market, are in the 5,000 - 15,000 - 25,000 etc. point range. Also, you mention $1 a point as being a good price - which would make the above deal worth $156,000 - I know that's not right! 

Why the discrepancy? It seems like two different systems.

Any information you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks for the service you are doing by alerting potential buyers like me of the pitfalls of this whole timeshare deal. 

Aloha, Stephen.

I didn't know what it could be, so I consulted with the folks from Redseason.com.au here in Australia. (The information is slightly different between regions of the world.) They said:

Wyndham sells two different systems in the USA - one is the "Worldmark by Wyndam" which is the equivalent of our system here in Australia (so 10000 credits for a 2 bedroom peak season at most resorts, etc) and the other one is the old Fairfield system which is now called something like "Wyndham Points" (just to be confusing). The Wyndham points system has a much higher point rating that the Worldmark system as you can see from Stephen's email. 

Worldmark South Pacific owners do not currently have access to the properties owned by the Wyndham Points club so I don't have any direct information on what the conversion rate between the two would be. 

So in short the systems are completely different and not sure what the resale value of the Wyndham Points system is (but as you would know in general you can pick up basically any timeshare on the secondhand market for around a third or less of the presentation prices) - I am sure a google search would turn up a number of brokers dealing with that system if he did want to buy one second-hand.

-- Fabbo Tags: wyndham worldmark

An unhappy Wyndham customer

From a reader...

Wyndham Resorts lured us by throwing us lavish and free gifts. In the promotion gatherings, they gave us a very rosy picture of their Holiday Scheme Package making us the owners of resorts exclusively holiday for members and no outsiders. For this ownership we had to pay a hefty price in instalments/lumpsum.

On becoming the member realised the cheating done by Wyndham giving preference to outsiders to earn money as we are the definate trapped members. Each time we want a holiday, we are refused and on lot of persulation and discussions ultimately, given the discarded room at low levels without any view and then the everlasting fight at reception takes place and if we are successful after creating a lot of scene, and spoiling our mood we are given a room with view. Every holiday a big breakfast is thrown where half of the resort members and the resort guests are invited to convince them to buy more points. All this is done at our monthly payments.

In addition to this, on two occasions in the past, when we cancelled a holiday booking well before time, Wyndham still deducted a hefty amount of points against our money from our account. And on we questioned them about it, instead of satisfying us with some reason, they simply banged the phone on us, making us feel like beggers (and not owners).

In another incedent, we received vouchers for 2-for-1 cruise from Wyndham Resorts which we renewed twice after shelling some money. According to this package, we were to receive two cruise tickets at the price of one ticket from a website they had given us. On enquiring and checking other websites, we found that the website quoted double the prices of the market price of cruises and hence was not actully a DISCOUNT which they promised us.

My whole regret is after spending such a lot of money I realised all this and i don't want anyone else to get trapped into this SCAM and suffer the way I have suffered - financially and mentally. I am probably trapped in this for life and if anyone could please help me get out of it.

Can't add anything to that!

-- Fabbo
Tags: wyndham worldmark

Wyndham vs Worldmark -- The battle continues

People who attend the Wyndham presentations are shown pretty pictures of vacation destinations and are asked to imagine leisurely holidays. Only at the very end do they get to see the legal contract. Never are they told about the relationship between Wyndham and Worldmark.

In a nutshell from my limited knowledge, Wyndham build (or purchase) and sell the accommodation, while Worldmark maintains it and has members. They are separate organisations. One is dedicated to selling. The other is the club that people join.

It appears that the relationship between the two is not all that happy. Here's information recently published by the Worldmark Owners association, which is unaffiliated with them both.

Dear WorldMark Owner:

By now, you should have received a copy of "Notice of Pendency of Settlement of Derivative Action" dated July 2, 2010 regarding the proposed settlement of litigation involving WorldMark and certain WorldMark directors. A copy of the settlement is available here. The settlement affects ALL persons who own WorldMark. Since this is a derivative suit, all owners will receive the settlement benefits (if any), therefore, an "opt out" option is not available as is often the case in class action suits. A settlement hearing will be held on September 10, 2010 at 9:00am in San Francisco, CA. You have a right to address the court, attend the hearing, and/or submit written comments/objections. Written comments must be received by the court and attorneys no later than August 27, 2010. 

The proposed settlement was negotiated between Plaintiffs' and Defendants' Counsels, not the Court. It is in your best interest to comment on the proposed settlement since in previous suits of this nature courts have considered comments in approving the final settlement. Your comments are important! To facilitate preparation of your comments, and to ensure compliance with specific requirements stated in the notice, a recommended format is available here.
WMOwners, Inc. objects to the proposed settlement, and there are a number of reasons to object. Not all are stated here.

1. The proposed settlement will result in undetermined expense to The Club and provide only minimal benefits. The crux of the case is that Director Defendants breached their fiduciary duty to members of the Club and placed the interests of Wyndham ahead of their obligations to Club members. This breach has resulted in ongoing controversy regarding the responsibilities of the Director Defendants and their obligation to prevent Wyndham from implementing certain programs that violate or are contrary to our governing documents. This settlement brings no relief or resolution on this important issue. 

2. The proposed settlement leaves the Club with a Board dominated by Wyndham-affiliated Directors. The Wyndham-dominated Board will merely fill the vacant position required by appointing one of their close "nonaffiliated" allies. The settlement does not adequately address this, and fails to impose restrictions that would prevent the Board from continuing those practices. 

3. The settlement contains a provision requiring "review" of the Management Agreement. The current Management Agreement is an annual, automatically self-renewing, multi-million dollar contract ($22.3M in 2009) for management services; yet never in the history of our Club has this contract been competitively awarded. Without competition it is impossible to determine if the Club could obtain the same services elsewhere at less cost. Given a board dominated by Wyndham affiliated Directors, the likelihood of revision or open competition that would benefit owners is extremely remote. 

4. Meaningful relief is grossly inadequate considering that no monetary recovery to the Club is proposed to offset the implementation expenses of settlement provisions. 

5. The proposed settlement is a broad waiver of claims. If the settlement is approved in the current format, this waiver would effectively preclude any further action on all claims - both known and unknown - related to any activity of the board during the settlement period. When balanced against the relief obtained, this waiver is excessive. The waiver is so broad that it arguably can be interpreted to bar states' Attorneys General from suing on behalf of Club members. 

For these reasons WM Owners, Inc. recommends that all WorldMark owners submit written objections to the proposed settlement. Any settlement in a complicated case of this nature is a compromise. As with any compromise, the final resolution is rarely the best possible outcome. However, the settlement as proposed is so unbalanced against the interests of WorldMark owners, that it should not be approved by the court. 

Click here to see the position of WorldMark Owners, Inc. on each of the subjects addressed in the Settlement notice. The document contains suggested relief that would be acceptable to WM Owners, Inc. Although the Court and Counsels are not obligated to accept any of the relief suggested, it is important to offer suggestions as well as criticism. By offering suggested relief it is hoped that the Court and Counsels will better understand the degree and scope of owners' concerns. Please feel free to use any of the material in this message or on wmowners.com in preparing your response to the Court and Counsels. 

For additional information on this proposed settlement, please visit Owners 4 WorldMark, the WMOwners discusson forum, and Marci Tribe's website. 

Remember, comments must be received by the Court and both Plaintiffs' and Defendants' counsel no later than August 27, 2010. 

Please do not assign your proxy to the Wyndham-controlled Board of Directors. Please assign your proxy to WMOwners, Inc. 

Thank you for your attention in this important matter, 

Your friends and co-owners at WMOwners, Inc

Mmm. Not good at all.

-- Fabbo


Tags: trendwest worldmark

National Vacation Sales & Service are evil

From a reader...

I was contacted by National Vacation Sales & Service in Nov. 2009. I paid $1500.00 for them to sell my property by Worldmark by Wyndham. I have never heard a word from them since. I left several messages and never heard from them again. Since them I have been scammed by others and have still not sold.

Yes, indeed! A quick Google search for them shows alerts from Wyndham and I even blogged about them previously.

There are, fortunately, reputable companies like Redseason that can re-sell memberships. The best such companies either purchase your credits directly so there's no "fee" — but they will only pay a market-discounted rate since they've got to earn a bit on the resale. Also, there seems to be a lot of sales via eBay.

Last resort... hand out leaflets outside a Wyndham office offering to sell credits at half-price to all those who enter. hehe

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Steamboat Springs says Wyndham is a scam

From a reader calling themselves DenverJulie...

It's a scam!! My husband and I started off like everyone else, going to this presentation followed by a sales pitch. After telling the salesmen "no" several times, they offered a 'trial package' with 12,000 pts for $1800 (paying $100 per mth for 18 mths) but the places we allowed to go were limited. It was do-able, so we signed up for it to try 'the experience'.

We were now locked in & we were making payments. Every time we called and talked with someone we got a completely different answer as to when our points expired. We finally got the same answer with the last couple people we spoke with so we decided to wait a couple weeks and then book our first trip to Vegas.

So when I call back to book a reservation, they said our points had 'expired'! WHAT???!! They said they had expired 6 months prior (August 2009), which is funny because the other 2 people I had spoke with told us we had until July of 2011. That's a HUGE time frame window of error. Anyways, they said they could reinstate our points, but we had to use all 12,000 points in 120 days. Wow, ok.

My husband was beyond mad, so he damanded an answer. The phone operator he actually spoke with was very nice & told him the REAL reason our points 'expired'. Worldmark had eliminated a department in their company which changed the 'rules & dates' in our contract. He said many people were upset, but there is a sentence in the contract that basically says rules can change whenever & customers don't have to be notified. WOW>> We were livid, but had paid for the trial & decided to use the points and be done with Worldmark.

Well we decided on Steamboat Springs in Colorado as our first weekend trip. On your first trip they make you attend a mandatory meeting with another salesman and the reservation had to be a minimum 3 night stay. We ended up wasting 1 night of points because of the limited time frame they gave us to use our reinstated points. The resort was beautiful and that the was the only good thing about the resort.

We went to our manditory sales pitch meeting (if you don't go, they fine you), on the day we checked out. We met with a nice lady and started to explain our concerns. We were so very nice in hopes they might give us back the points for the 3rd night we HAD to book & didn't use. She looked at us like we were crazy & said there is NO mandatory 3 night booking, and had no clue how to respond to our other concerns (expiration date changes of our points), so she called out the manager of Steamboat Springs Worldmark. HERE'S the kicker! You ready? He says he didn't know about the mandatory 3 night booking for first trip.

We started to tell him about our expiration date change for our points and before we could finish he interrupted us. He bluntly told us the Worldmark salesmen & phone operators will tell you ANYTHING to get you in the door to get your money. That's their job to get you locked in & they will tell you anything true or not. We were like 'What? How is that legal?' After that we were so mad but remained calm & had so many more questions to ask him. He started to yell at us & didn't want to answer any of our questions.

He then said 'If you don't like the Worldmark experience then you can leave right now.'

I said, 'Well this meeting is mandatory or we will get fined.'

He said,'You won't be fined bc you at least showed up.'

We indeed left right then. I was shocked at how UNPROFESSIONAL the mangaer could be. The funny thing is, I can't believe he bluntly told us Worlmark is a scam! His own words... Do not get fooled by these people.

Oh I want to just say one more thing. I just read up a few comments where people were asking how to use the trial package once it's paid off. According to that rude manager at Steamboat Springs, you HAVE to use your points BEFORE your last payment of the trial period. Yes you heard me, you have to use the points (take all vacations) before you are even done paying for it. That does not make any sense to me at all. He told my husband and I that we are very lucky that our points were reinstated so we could use our points. Scam.

Mmm. Makes me think that I should record all my contract-related phone calls to keep evidence for these sorts of conversations. (By the way, Skype add-ons let you record calls. Very handy!)

Thanks for your story, DenverJulie!

-- Fabbo

Tags: trendwest worldmark

Don't join, just use their free trips!

From a reader...

I am surprised at all of the negetive comments here. It sounds like everyone is upset they have to listen to a typical sales pitch and expect a 1st class vacation for free! REALLY??

I have had a couple experiences with Trendwest. I have listened to their presentation 3 times, and taken the 'free vacation' twice, with the 3rd in the works. The 1st 2 times, I went to Vegas. Yes, you arrive late and depart early, so you basically get 1 day there. BUT... my husband and I have 4 children and no time or money for vacations. This was a PERFECT little get-a-way for us! We are now planning on using our 3rd free trip to Cancun this year. No, not much time to spend there, but we are so looking forward to a quick get-a-way at the beach with a chance to unwind. And no, they don't book you at sleezy hotels. Both times in Vegas, we stayed at the Excalibur. Not top of the line, but not a sleezy hotel either. And the taxes and fees you pay are normal. How many of you can take a quick trip for less than $200? You couldn't buy airfare alone for that!

So, my suggestion is, if you are just in it for the free trip, yes, it is totally worth 1 1/2 hrs and a few nominal fees!!! Oh, and each time, they also gave us a $30 giftcard to Olive Garden as well! No one can be FORCED into signing a contract if they don't want to. You just need a backbone....

Mmm. So this isn't exactly a recommendation for taking out Worldmark ownership — it's a recommendation to take the Trendwest freebies. Not exactly honest, but I must admit that I did appreciate the DVD player that I got for attending my sales presentation.

Vegas, watch out!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Disney or... Busted!

From a reader...

I have read all of the above comments. I purchased a 12,000 credit "Experience" membership with WorldMark in 2008. I haven't experienced anything yet aside from repeatedly having to request a brochure or something that says when and where I can use my vacation credits. I'm about to pay my 19th and final payment of $99 for this powerful and painful lesson that will turn out to be the most expensive mistake I have ever made. I urge anyone who gets suckered into this "experience" branded debt-hole to cancel within 3 days of signing their contract by mailing this address:

WorldMark by Wyndham Experience
Recission-Contract Compliance Department
P.O. Box 690189
Orlando, FL 2869-0189

Do a google search on that address so you can find out what information you need to send them. I've lost that information.

You're better off saving $100 a month and use it however you like. I didn't find out until it was too late that I can't use the credits for airfare, I can't go to Hawaii, or the Caribbean or on any cruises. I really wanted to take a cruise. They gave me a brochure for worldmark "The Club" which is not what I paid for. So, I'm still trying to figure out how to use these credits before June, when they are scheduled to expire.

They did offer a vacation in Disneyland / California adventure but a year and a half after mailing in the voucher, I have still never received the tickets they promised.

Altogether this experience has equated to a money-draining SCAM. I like how their company posts anonymous shill comments here to offset some of the negative reviews. From what I can tell, the negative reviews are the only real ones, the rest are all shills.

Ouch! You'd think they would treat their 'Experience' customers even better than owners, but it seems not.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Flight attendant loves Worldmark in Hawaii

From a reader...

My friend has worldmark and I am saving to purchase one. I would never buy at a presentation as the same membership (6,000 points is what my friend has) is available on eBay for way less and is the same in every way as one purchased from worldmark.

It is perfect for my situation as I am a flight attendant and love to travel to Hawaii. My friend (who is also a flight attendant) and I have stayed at the Worldmark in Kona many times. The beautiful thing about the resorts in Hawaii is they are considered exotic bonus time so you can book them for yourself or a guest for $485.00 for an entire week up to 1 month in advance.

The exotic bonus time is unlimited and totally separate from credits. It's even cheaper if you go just Mon-Thur as weekends cost more. They have full kitchens, washer and dryers. Saves money since you don't have to eat out every meal.

My friend also booked the Worldmark in Tucson for me and my parents as guests. That one was a 2-bedroom and we paid $54.00 a night which was an awesome deal. Also they are more like condo apartments than resorts so if you really like resorts this is not for you.

I think that you have to look at your individual situation to see if it is a good deal for you or not. I get free airfare so for me it is perfect as the Worldmark resorts in Hawaii are a steal compared to other hotels. I think some of the popular drive-to resorts can be a lot harder to get rooms at, so research that if you are considering buying it for a certain location.

I went to the website for Worldmark and read through all the information and am pretty much a Worldmark expert. I even know more about it than my friend who owns it. I suggest doing the same before thinking about buying to see if it will be a good deal for your situation.

Another handy hint is if you want to know the cost of a resort per night multiply the credits X .048. For instance the resort in Kona is 10,000 credits for a week so 10,000 X .048 = $480.00. I hope my info helps someone out there. Again if you want Worldmark save yourself time and money and buy on the second-hand market from a trusted source to get the best deal.

Couldn't agree more.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

We've been richly blessed by our ownership

Some pleasant comments for a change...

Bitter - bitter - bitter - what a bunch of complainers!!

My wife and I have been owners for 12 years. We purchased shortly after we got married to force ourselves to take family vacations annually. We now have 4 kids and absolutely love our ownership.

For those who have been misled - I'm sorry. My wife and I used to attend sales pitches all the time for the free gifts. We were good at saying no. We took the free trip to San Francisco for 2 nights and 3 days, paid an upgrade fee and were not impressed with the result, but we really enjoyed the free trip. We also did not purchase at that time.

A year later we were invited back for another presentation and another free trip. This trip was to Reno, which we decided not to upgrade and ended up staying in a 5-star resort/casino that was beautiful and luxurious. We had a blast!

We also ended up buying at this presentation. The things that made sense to us: Many local resorts within 2-3 hours drive (with children it is often hard to afford airfare)

Renewable credits every year with a one-year carryover and one-year borrowing power. We could skip a year or go twice in one year if we wanted to. The maintenance fees were a little high, but less than it would cost us to vacation at a similar place. By paying them monthly we could spread out the cost of our vacation over the year instead of trying to book something and having to stay home because we didn't have the money saved up. (If it's there it's spent most of the time)

We could rent our unit out if we wanted to and recover the cost of the maintenance fees. (Have done this on more than one occasion)

The bonus time and exchange opportunities are also attractive and useful. We have visited many of the resorts and have always had a positive experience. We have also added additional credits to our account over the years. Our goal is to will a portion of it to each of our kids. The credits required for a week have not gone up. A few of the resorts have a higher rate than others due to location or demand, but overall we are using the same number of credits for a week now that we used when we first purchased in the late 1990's. We also have the opportunity to use many more resorts than we did when we purchased, as Worldmark continued to build new properties over the years, all of which we have access to.

We also upgraded one time and decided the timing wasn't right. When you upgrade or purchase for the first time they are required by law to give you at least a 3 business day window to cancel. We returned on the 3rd day and canceled, telling them we needed to re-think the decision at that time due to budget constraints. We had no problems canceling and no bills were sent to us.

Finally, we have almost always gotten into the resort we wanted to when we wanted to by planning ahead. We book 13 months out because we can cancel at any time up to 30 days before with no penalty and no loss of credits. It makes for easy planning.
We do not work for Worldmark and would not want to work for them. My advice is get the information you need ahead of time and make an informed decision. Investing in vacation ownership is not a financial investment - you will not make money off it by re-selling it. But it can be an investment in your family, reserving time to spend together and create lifelong memories. We've been richly blessed by our ownership, despite occasional glitches the company has had with paperwork or other details that come with being a huge corporation. Remember that most of the people you deal with are just that - real people who have feelings and needs and are earning a paycheck. Some can be jerks - hope you can avoid them...

If you'd like to discuss any of this with me, please send an email to sotnasrd@yahoo.com. I'm happy to share my honest opinions, experience, and advice.

Thanks for reading - Dan

Good stuff! For many people, the value is there -- especially if you can buy those credits at half-price.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

You should attack Wyndham with ALL CAPS

From Klaus, who seems to have quite an opinion of Wyndham...

Worldmark is a rubbish company that lies, deceive, cheat people. Let's be clear, we need to make this company disappear.

Anyway, if you want to have your contract cancelled, send them a LETTER, registered with track control with signature required saying like this: I WANT THE CANCELATION OF MY CONTRACT DUE TO MISREPRESENTATION. Those are the words. MISREPRESENTATION. It is important.

After I shout on one of the managers she told me to do exactly like that. And after a while they sent me a mutual release contract. And don't let them fool you. Ask your money back. But make them pay you, they will try to deceive you as usual. Don't be fooled. fight until the end. They are bastards. Good Luck

By the way, I think he's referring to Wyndham, not Worldmark.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

How to get a FREE Cruise Ship holiday!

Have you ever considered taking a cruise instead of staying in typical timeshare accommodation?

I've just been on a cruise with my family and we had an absolutely fantastic holiday! We went on the Royal Caribbean ship Rhapsody of the Seas, for a 10-day cruise in Australia.

Let me tell you — having a holiday on a cruise ship is vastly different to a land adventure. You can do as much or as little as you want, you are fully pampered and there's activities for the kids. If you want to learn more about my cruise, see the review I posted on the Cruise Critic website.

However, there's one thing I learned onboard that I'd like to pass along. I discovered how some people (actually MANY people) get free/low-cost cruises... they serve as Enrichment Lecturers, speakers, face painters, entertainers and even gentlemen dance partners. By working a few hours on each 'at sea' day, they get a free cruise in return.

It's true — for example, Sixth Star Entertainment have listings of openings available. Go check them out!

Interestingly, the cruise ships provide a free cruise to the Enrichment instructors, but Sixth Star charge the instructors $40/day as their 'cut'. Apparently, it's possible to go directly to the cruise companies and get the cruise totally free. There's even a website called SpeakersCruiseFree.com that tells you how to do it. They sell an eBook for $97, which can probably give you a FREE $4000 cruise! (If any of you buy the book, let me know what you think!)

Here's a PDF that explains the benefits: The Top 5 Cruise Lines Enrichment Programs and How You Can Exploit Them To Get Free Cruises

So, as you sit there beside your timeshare pool, year after year, think about taking a cruise instead. You might even be able to use some of your timeshare points to get a cruise through Interval. Good luck!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

The Scammers are being Scammed

Hehe. Looks like some people called National Vacation Sales and Service are trying to scam Worldmark owners.

A recent Redseason.com.au newsletter says:

There is a resale company in the USA that has somehow managed to get a hold of the full member listing for all Worldmark owners (including owner names, phone numbers and the number of credits owned by each member). I would love to know how they obtained this information as Wyndham really should not be releasing personal information to these guys.

The company is called National Vacation Sales and Service and operates out of Florida USA and is offering ridiculously high prices to rent or buy memberships.

One member who contacted me was offered over A$9000 just to rent her available points on a 7000 credit membership. This is definitely a scam as they could buy the full membership from us for under A$7000 so please do not fall for overseas companies offering high prices for your membership - no doubt if you accepted you would be asked for some sort of listing fee or to provide your bank details to them.

A bit of Google searching also revealed a warning on the Worldmark website. Interestingly, this is a warning to Worldmark South Pacific owners.

This started to look interesting, and a bit more searching found this transcript on Timeshare Users Group Online Community Forums:

Q:How did you get my Mom's name?

A: Our financing company, Tamaac sent out a postcard to people with timeshares asking if they wanted to sell it, when they didnt respond, they passed the name to my company, so we called your Mom.

Q: What's the $1500 for? It seems potentially risky, throwing nearly 10% of the value of the property for a potential sale.
A: That's $1500 she would have to spend anyway if she were going to sell it to get the same documents.

(Unsolicited, from him): We wouldn't even be contacting you if we didn't need your property.

Q: So you're saying you have a buyer on the line, right now?
A: it's against the law for us to tell you that.

Q: Well, it seems that if you had a buyer on the line, why wouldn't your company just cover those costs, against the price of the timeshare? That way, when she sold it, she would receive $18,000, minus the $1500 of the cost of processing those documents.

A: Well that would be against the law. We're not allowed to work on commission.

The transcript has more and makes a fun read!

So, it looks like the standard Nigerian 419 scam that tries to get your money up-front with the promise of a later financial return. Yeah, sure!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

One in a Million (dollars, that is)

I received this cryptic message as a comment on this blog:

go to SMALL CLAIMS COURT, you can usually file there up to $10,000.00 and in some states highter. I filed a class action suit and won, I also filed a lawusuit with 10 other and 8 were setteled for around $500,000.00 each, I won a jury verdict for $ONE MILLION IN MARCH OF 2009, MY ATTORNEYS WAS gARY gWILLIAM OF oAKLAND caLIFORNIA AT 510 83205411

It had the name of 'Steve Wiley' attached. So, I did a Google search and found some interesting history. It dates back to 2007 when Wiley, who apparently worked at Trendwest for 13 years and sued them for wrongful termination and age discrimination.

More to the point, he also accused Trendwest (now Wyndham) of selling more memberships than available capacity. That is, he claimed that there was insufficient capacity in Worldmark properties for members to actually use all their points to obtain bookings.

I don't have any more information on the topic, but it certainly makes an interesting topic, especially if Trendwest/Worldmark was found guilty of such matters.

Oh, and it just goes to prove... don't upset your staff, or they'll make your life hell!

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Let WorldMark Buyers Beware! (The Story)

From a reader...

I had purchased into worldmark myself about 4 years ago. I was told at the time of signing that I could cancel my contract if I was unsatisfied. A couple of days after my purchase I tried to book a vacation to try and se how it would work out. Tha places I tried to book were all pretty much booked for the next 3 months. So I called the numbers provided to me in the nice little green owners briefcase they had given me. I found out that day this was going to be impossible to cancel so I went to the office I had signed out of and they wouldn't help me cancel. They gave me instructions on how to request my cancellation and since I was five days into the contract, I only had 2 days left to cancel. At this point I wrote them an e-mail through the contact us link on thier website, Told them of my situation and that I did not like what I had purchased and requested a cancellation of contract.

Two weeks later I got a response saying that because the 7 days had already past I am no longer able to cancel my contract, a couple days later I recieved notice of payment due. I decided since not to pay and hoped It would all just go away since they have never collected from me and I did not plan on using thier service anyways. After four months my credit had plumetted due to them reporting and hurt my career in the military because I had a security clearance required for my job, I went under review due to the tarnish on my credit. So I made the back payments and since then have not fallen behind even with dues and fees that come about.

I feel for all those who where lied too, during this presentation. In a way we were suckered to believe we could cancel, when in reality they do not tell you how many days you have from the time you sign. They do not make any of this clear during thier presentation and sales pitch. They don't tell you about the limit for roolover on credits and how they actually work. They sold me a basic package that I will be paying on for about 8 more years now until it's paid in full.

I decided to pay for the contract in hopes that I would be able to sale and get out of it. I made 4 attempts in the past 3 years and have always ended up owing a large balance if I sold and would have to pay up for the balance in advance before it could be sold. So I say to all those who are interested look else where you will find the same thing for less from a time share reseller, and be able to stay away from a contract to if you are interested in credits alone..... buyer beware!

Yes, this doesn't sound surprising. If you are trying to cancel a legal contract, it must be in writing, delivered to a Worldmark address. Keep a copy of the letter, with written file notes attesting to when you delivered the letter. Courts like written stuff and file notes — email just doesn't cut it.

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark

Truth?

I had this message posted anonymously as a comment:

If you don't think you are getting value for your membership, go along to one of those 'membership refresher' nights for tips and tricks on getting the most out of it.

We are from Qld and in our 30's, and have about 20k in points. We have travelled the world with worldmark, and have been so happy with it! In 06 we did 4 weeks travelling in Europe, and we ONLY had to pay for our flights. Imagine how much a month in Europe would cost if we had to also pay for the accommodation on top? We would have needed at least another $12k for the apartments.

We are now in Canada, and have done 6 weeks here also the same way.

Add to that Fiji, New Zealand, Tasmania, the list goes on!

You just have to remember that the points just keep on giving each year - yes the initial set up costs $, but after a few years it is all worth it. Get online, and book ahead.

Holidays anytime are never 'inconvenient' for us!

I'm always happy to hear the 'good' side of Worldmark, but the thing that I question here is how they managed to get 4 weeks in Europe and 6 weeks in Canada with 20k points? So, if the author is reading this, please provide some more information (eg was it off-season, how far ahead did they have to book, did they 'save up' points from one year and use it in another year, etc). Then I might be a little less skeptical.

Oh, and don't forget the annual fees. It wasn't "only paying for flights". The annual fees would be $2k or so, wouldn't they?

-- Fabbo
Tags: trendwest worldmark